Talk:Dirt (Alice in Chains album)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

<^>v!!This album is connected!!v<^>

References

Major sources
Others


Some sources Burningclean [speak] 19:47, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Singles

I was just looking up a discography of the band on google books and it only mentions two four singles from Dirt. You can check the source yourself, but was Rooster released as a single? I can't find much more info for it. Perhaps only a video was made? We should look this up further. Andrzejbanas (talk) 05:16, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I have checked your source and the information contained in it is limited in scope. It only contains information about singles released in Europe and the United States (not even sure about that) and omits anything about promo single releases.-5- (talk) 22:10, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't mention it, but I still can't find information about this single from a reliable source either way. We can't take discogs.com as a reliable source as it's based on user-submitted information which is not confirmable. I'm reverting it until we find information about this 5th single. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:31, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
What do you want to know? You can purchase the "The Rooster" single here at Amazon.com. Also here and here. You are absolutely wrong about this, and I will continue to revert your edit if this continues. Why does this section need to be sourced anyway? The same section for numerous featured album articles isn't referenced, such as In Utero.-5- (talk) 04:01, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Okay, let's work this out. :) The In Utero article does mention the month and year the singles were released in the infobox. I can't find proof of that other single existing, but I believe you that it did get released. I'm going to revert my single releases which does give a little more information (relating to month of release) but I'll leave in the other single as well. I'll let you reply back before i make the edit. Sound good? Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:52, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't believe the release dates that you have are entirely correct. I believe they are probably the correct release dates for the UK releases of those singles, but not the American or international releases. "Rooster" and "Down in a Hole" can be verified as being released in 1993, so the "Down in a Hole" date is likely correct, but "Would?", "Them Bones", and "Angry Chair" should say 1992. Allmusic has the "Angry Chair" single as being released on December 3, 1992 here. Amazon.com is selling versions of the Would? single that were released in 1992 here and eil.com is selling versions of the "Them Bones" single that were released in 1992 here.-5- (talk) 14:46, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
I think you are right about the British singles. They seem to make sense with the charting dates of the singles as seen here in this book. Let's go with what you have so far. Good research! Sorry for the trouble. Perhaps these UK release notes should be mentioned on their respective singles pages though. :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:14, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
I will go ahead and add the UK release dates to the single pages. I am glad we worked this out.-5- (talk) 20:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Sap and Jar of Flies

Shouldn't Sap and Jar of Flies be listed respectively as the last and next albums? Shaneymike (talk) 19:34, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

No. Read WP:ALBUM formatting rules. The Real Libs-speak politely 19:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
But what about this? "For some artists it may be more appropriate to include all album types in one chain" Shaneymike (talk) 13:48, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Unrelated reference removed

I removed this reference from the article:

"History for Seattle Boeing, WA". Weather Underground, Inc. 2002-04-05. Retrieved 2010-08-24.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.194.160.80 (talk) 03:19, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Genres

I find listing four genres to describe a single album to be excessive, especially since Dirt's sound isn't exactly eclectic. Instead of listing all sorts of metal subgenres, why not just "Grunge, heavy metal"?—indopug (talk) 06:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I'd support the removal of hard rock, but i'd like too see alternative metal stay since all of their other full length albums have that genre. I call the big one bitey (talk) 7:28, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

How about only alt-metal and grunge then? Having both overarching- and sub-genres is redundant.—indopug (talk) 07:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Fine with me I call the big one bitey (talk) 9:45 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Please forgive. Y'all did this genre change correctly. Reading the talk page first will be my friend....I lash myself with a hour of bubble-gum music ツ Fylbecatulous talk 13:22, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I still don't get why sludge metal was removed from the genre infobox. It was properly sourced, though. Myxomatosis75 (talk) 21:30, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't get it either. These guys were feuding over subgenres so I suggested to keep heavy metal and grunge then. Then alternative metal was added again. But it seems now there are two or more sources clearly label the album as sludge metal. So confusing. Ravenlord5150 (talk) 10:50, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Two sources using "sludge" doesn't necessarily mean it is a sludge metal record. It all depends on context and what the sources are providing to back up such a claim, and also what the consensus of sources is in regard to that topic. WesleyDodds (talk) 14:21, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
I saw Wsleydodds removed heavy metal. It's completely unnecessary. Alternative metal from Seattle as we know usually combines heavy metal and grunge. So, if it's a necessity to keep two subgenres per album which is weird anyway but in case alternative metal should be removed as Indopug first comment indicated. Ravenlord5150 (talk) 15:08, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
See the discussion above. Alternative metal is a subgenre of heavy metal, and given grunge is a subgenre of alt-rock, best to either be really specific or really broad, not a mix of both. WesleyDodds (talk) 07:42, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Down in a Hole

Why is "Down in a Hole" placed between "Angry Chair" and "Would?" Sure it's how less common versions in America and foreign versions are, but Alice in Chains is an American band and should reflect the American order. I'm changing it. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 07:08, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Shouldn't the title "Iron Gland" (track 10) be "Iron Man"?

From many sources, such as iTunes and Amazon Music, list the title for this song as "Iron Man", not "Iron Gland", as listed by Wikipedia. Which version is correct? Iron Gland... this was a parody... 76.186.96.153 (talk) 04:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Reply: The original title was indeed "Iron Man". The track was originally called "Iron Man" as named on the official 1992 minidisc release on Columbia "CM 52475". It contains the opening vocal from the track "I am Iron Man" however on the retrospective "Music Bank" and nothing safe it was renamed "Iron Gland". This revisionism is probably to avoid any potential legal/royalty issues. As such the Wiki article herein about the track is misleading and a revisionist history of the track/album which is unreliable. It is interesting to note that iTunes listed the track correctly originally but ironically Wiki refers to it as an error.

Playing the minidisc however highlights the tracks original and correct name on the MD-Text display is indeed "Iron Man". Given the choice between the original source for the title, the fact that it';s a partial cover of the song in question and the new title seems to be a revision probably to avoid royalties or some other is enough for the titling to be reverted to it's original state.AD828321 (talk) 11:32, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Best to just follow what it says on the album, and on the nothing safe comp its listed as iron gland. Also amazon and itunes are known to make mistakes for song titles etc. I call the big one bitey (talk) 11:58, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I understand you. If we follow what it says on the album (Dirt) then we're forced to go by the only version to actually mention the track which was the USA Minidisc release which calls it "Iron Man". Nothing Safe is a retrospective compilation album which names it differently. Why does it name it differently we might ask? I think I've posited some very plausible reasons above. At the very least I feel we should mention how it was originally titled, what it is and how the changed the title retrospectively. I also agree that Amazon and Itunes are not good primary sources, however when considering the original album and the track title given there, then it certainly works well as secondary source information (particularly iTunes). AD828321 (talk) 15:53, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Dirt (Alice in Chains album)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)Press [show] to view →
==Reassessment==

Start class:

  • Green tickY A reasonably complete infobox
  • Green tickY A lead section giving an overview of the album
  • Green tickY A track listing
  • Green tickY Reference to at least primary personnel by name (must specify performers on the current album; a band navbox is insufficient)
  • Green tickY Categorisation at least by artist and year

C class:

  • Green tickY All the start class criteria
  • Green tickY A reasonably complete infobox, including cover art
  • Green tickY At least one section of prose (in addition to the lead section)
  • Green tickY A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs
  • Green tickY A "personnel" section listing performers, including guest musicians.

B class:

  • Green tickY All the C class criteria
  • Green tickY A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details
  • Green tickY A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians
  • Red XN No obvious issues with sourcing, including the use of blatantly improper sources.
  • Green tickY No significant issues exist to hamper readability, although it may not rigorously follow WP:MOS

Last edited at 13:23, 16 July 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 13:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Fear the Voices

The section "Outtakes" states "The songs "Fear the Voices" and "Lying Season" were featured on Alice in Chains' 1991 demo tape", but i'm not convinced that "Fear the Voices" was on a 1991 demo tape. I have seen two instances of a bootlegged 1991 demo tape YouTube and that song was not on there. Its own Wikipedia page states ""Fear the Voices" is an outtake from the Dirt album, recorded in 1992". Furthermore the song is making reference to a political incident from 1992. (Google searches for a "Fear the Voices" demo also don't bear any results.) On the other hand Cantrell is quoted in the "Music Bank" liner notes: "Another cool song from that demo for the Crowe movie. Thinking about it now, that was a fruitful tape! We got "Would?" for the movie, part of Sap and we got started on the Dirt, so the tune itself was a good song, but we were just turning to the height of our blackness." Maybe this quote was about another song or Cantrell remembered it wrong, since he said that in 1999, some years after the recording. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:B5C0:74B0:7C2B:FA0E:17E:711E (talk) 21:54, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Alternative Rock.

Alternative Rock was added to the "genre" section of the infobox for the album. I am concerned that this may be too general a term. Used in a truthful manner, Alternative Rock should refer to College Rock from the 1980s (Concrete Blonde, R.E.M., Husker Du, etc.). Clearly, while it could comfortably be argued that Dirt is in some way derived from this sort of music (it is, Would? ≈ R.E.M.'s King Of Birds), most or all of the music of this album is more than simply "Alternative Rock", with much of the music fitting into Alternative Rock's subcategories (which are already listed; Grunge and Alternative Metal). It has already been discussed that "genre" sections should be "either really general or really specific, not both". In addition, the source given for Alternative Rock is perhaps to vague in itself. What is much better is a source saying "Dirt is an Alternative Rock album" or similar, rather than a vague list of "Alternative" albums. --JoeyofScotia (talk) 12:24, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

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