Talk:Donald of Islay, Lord of the Isles

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage.

Scottish Islands Mid‑importance

	Scottish islands portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scottish Islands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of islands in Scotland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Scottish IslandsWikipedia:WikiProject Scottish IslandsTemplate:WikiProject Scottish IslandsScottish Islands articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Medieval Scotland Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medieval Scotland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Medieval Scotland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Medieval ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject Medieval ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject Medieval ScotlandMedieval Scotland articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Clans of Scotland Low‑importance

	This article is supported by the Clans of Scotland WikiProject, which gives a central approach to Scottish clans and related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article Donald of Islay, Lord of the Isles, or visit the project page for more details on the projects.Clans of ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject Clans of ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject Clans of ScotlandClans of Scotland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

What are comital lands?[edit]

"wealthy comital and episcopal lands" ? --AW 16:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lands pertaining to the earldom or bishopric of Moray. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 17:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, i'm going to clarify that --AW 19:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, can you? You know it better than me --AW 19:29, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wikilinked them to Earl of Moray and Diocese of Moray. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Birth[edit]

Do we know around when and where he was born? --AW 21:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He was born after his father's marriage to Margaret Stewart in 1350. Probably about 1360 or 1370, judging by the fact that he died in 1423. As for where, Ardtornish Castle or Loch Finlaggan seem to be the most likely candidates.

Tressure?[edit]

What's a royal tressure? As you can tell I have a lot of questions about this article. It's a little technical and has a lot of terms that aren't very familiar. --AW 21:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that's always going to be the case. The more in depth you wanna go in history, the more you have to increase your knowledge of the English language and the terms used for the period. Wikilinks are there for that ... but articles can't go on tangents explaining every term that not everyone might know. I'm afraid there is no alternative name for tressure. It's a heraldic thing ... see the Lion Rampant flag (the edges) for an example. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How does this paragraph fit in?[edit]

It doesn't mention Domhnall.

“

The Guardian soon turned his hostility against the MacDonalds. Alexander of Lochaber had been using his role as "protector" to further his own lordship, including granting episcopal lands to his military followers. In 1398, Robert Stewart (now Duke of Albany) was called upon to take action, but the well-prepared expedition in the end came to nothing. Lochaber continued his activities, and in a raid of 1402 burned the burgh of Elgin along with the manses of the canons belonging to Elgin Cathedral. For this he was excommunicated by William Spynie, bishop of Moray. Later in the year Alexander visited Spynie to seek forgiveness.

”

--AW 21:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Erm .... MacDonalds are Domhnall's family and political followers. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Alternative brand of lordship"?[edit]

"and as representatives of an alternative brand of lordship," is that alternative to the King? --AW 21:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To the rest of Scotland, yes, and to the Stewarts. It's a reference to the depiction of the Lords of the Isles as nationalistically and aggressively more Gaelic than the rest of the Highlands, a picture which ignores the fact that they were very much like the rest of the Scottish nobility of the time. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks[edit]

It's much clearer now, thank you --AW 18:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They weren't that similar to Scottish nobility. They had a similar position to other magnates, but culturally they were very different. Most Scottish nobility was Anglo-Norman, and the Macdonald dynasty was almost entirely Gallgael. And not many other Scottish nobles had a council. Clan Donald essentially ruled a realm that was a semi-independent combination of Gaelic and Norse culture with hints of the most practical feudal traditions.

DABs on Urquhart and Angus Macdonald[edit]

I believe that Urquhart = Urquhart Castle, but there is a discrepancy in dates between this article (1395) and Urquhart Castle (1595) regarding when the MacDonalds captured the castle. I do not believe there is an existing (Wiki) biography for our Angus Macdonald, yet. Kibi78704 (talk) 02:47, 24 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ross Claims[edit]

Do you have any valid source for the statements made under this section? Most historians suggest that Donald signed an alliance with Henry IV on 16 September 1405, before the capture of James I, which he renewed on 8 May 1408; the capture of Dingwall was in 1411, probably May, after invading Ross via Loch Carron, and as part of the campaign that would lead to Harlaw; Donald retreated and never appeared in the field again with the Regent taking Dingwall around September 1411 and the Earl or Mar starting rebuilding Inverness as early as October 1411; the Regent made attempts to engage Donald in the summer of 1412 but he couldn't put an army in the field and Donald was forced to resign his claim to the Earldom of Ross at the treaty of Loch Gilp in 1412. After this the Regent made attempts to settle the issue of the Earldom of Ross and made attempts to marry Euphemia, whom he held in ward. On 3 June 1415 (she was probably about 18 or so), he tried to marry her to Thomas Dunbar, 6th Earl of Moray, the son of a supporter. However it seems to have been rejected, possibly on account of her disability and the lack of potential for an heir. Later that month, it seems that the Regent “suggested” that she resign her lands and titles and she resigned them in favour of the crown, represented by the Regent. The Regent then conveyed them back to her but with the lands, to her maternal uncle, and the Regent's son, John, Earl of Buchan. Euphemia left to become a nun at Berwick and Donald contested the distribution suggesting that as a nun she was effectively dead. Remember this is now 1415, four years after Harlaw. But, to Donald's disgust, all titles and claims were passed to the Earl of Buchan who henceforth calls himself the Earl of Buchan and Ross. However it didn't stop Donald coveting the title. When the Regent died in 1420 and the focus went off the claim to the title, Donald, in a document addressed to the Pope in Rome, in 1421, still styled himself as Lord of the Isles and of the Earldom of Ross. However there is no evidence he made this openly within the courts of Scotland. History later records that on the death of John Stewart, Earl of Buchan and Ross, in 1424 at the Battle of Verneuil in Normandy, him being an illegitimate son, his estates passed to the crown, James I, as was normal practise. Thus, in 1424, after the death of Donald, the Earldom of Ross reverted to Donald's wife, Mariota, and thus passed to their son Alexander. In 1425, Alexander of the Isles and "Master of the Earldom of Ross," sat upon the jury which condemned to death Murdoch, Duke of Albany, and his two sons, and the Earl of Lennox, which James, in one stroke removed the power of the Albany Stewarts. Alexander is later known as the Earl of Ross after his mother dies. Family locator (talk) 05:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Date of birth[edit]

This piece seems to be forgotten but might provide an interesting insight into the events in his later years. His father, John, married Margaret Stewart July 1350 (according to The Scots Peerage) and indeed wikipedia suggests the same. Donald was certainly of age by the time John died in 1380, although I note that wikipedia has him dead in 1386 Skene and others suggest 1380, when he receives the lordship from his older half-brother Ranald and, under Highland law in play at the time, must have been old enough to have been chief or else Ranald would have been retained as Regent. Donald was the older of the three boys suggesting he was born around 1351 and thus 60 when he commenced the Harlaw campaign. He died in 1423 suggesting he was 72. Does that make sense to others? Family locator (talk) 05:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]