Talk:Duke Wen of Jin

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Clan name[edit]

To User:星光下的人: you provided the following quote from Zuo Zhuan to support your claim that Duke Wen's clan name is Jin: "晋重、鲁申、卫武、蔡甲午、郑捷、齐潘、宋王臣、莒期" (trans: Jin Chong, Lu Shen, Wei Wu, Cai Jiawu, Zheng Jie, Qi Pan, Song King Chen, Ju Qi). But I don't find this convincing at all. Ancient texts frequently refer to rulers of states with "State name + personal name" (Tang Shuyu, Cai Shudu, for example), which does not mean the name of the state is the person's clan name. Also look at the "Qi Pan" in the quote, which refers to Duke Zhao of Qi whose personal name is Pan. It's well known that Qi rulers' clan name is Lü, and Qi here clearly refers to the state name, not the clan name. Analogously, the Jin in Jin Chong refers to the state name, not the clan name. --Zanhe (talk) 17:21, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese clan name have a law before Qin dynasty called "using the state name for clan name"(以国为氏).张淑一《周代姓氏制度研究》东北师范大学 1999年硕士论文 P35 “以国为氏的人名例证有：晋文公称晋重、鲁僖公称鲁申……齐昭公称齐潘”。陈絜《商周姓氏制度研究》 ISBN 9787100053273 P272“在正常情况下，各国诸侯是以国为氏的”.And I can tell you Qi rulers' clan name is Qi ,only Taigong and Dinggong ' clan name is Lü,it may be after 5 generations they changed clan name.集解礼记曰：“太公封於营丘，比及五世，皆反葬於周。”郑玄曰：“太公受封，留为太师，死葬於周。五世之後乃葬齐。”.——星光下的人 (talk) 04:07, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Departure from Qi[edit]

...yet another succession crisis in Qi in 639 BC...

This seems wrong. There was a huge civil war over Qi's succession in 643–2 but no trouble at all in 639. Source? — $Llywelyn II$ 00:53, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Lives of Extraordinary Women also credits Chong'er's wife with the departure from Qi and implies it had ntg to do with its internal politics. — LlywelynII 08:52, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for future article expansion[edit]

The current sources about Jie Zhitui also have more info about the Wen Duke in other contexts as well.

These were previously listed but unused. Kindly restore these to the bibliography once they're being used for inline citations:

Hansen, Valerie, The Open Empire, ISBN 978-0-393-97374-7.
Walker, Richard Lewis, The Multi-state System of Ancient China, ISBN 978-0-8371-5172-4.

— LlywelynII 05:52, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]