Talk:Duncan Robinson (art historian)

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Requested move 25 July 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. There is a reasonable consensus for the move suggested. Where consensus breaks down is whether to convert the resulting redirect into an hndab page or move the basketball player's article to the redirect title. These secondary matters should be taken up in other Requested Move proposals. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:42, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Duncan Robinson → Duncan Robinson (art historian) – not a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC Joeykai (talk) 21:14, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tend to disagree. But I doubt it'll be easy to determine a primary topic because Duncan Robinson (basketball) is an American sportsman while this Duncan Robinson (art historian) is a British academic. I suppose we can disambiguate at the base title? Deryck C. 23:44, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Either make a DAB at base name or make basketball player primary.--Ortizesp (talk) 01:45, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Making the basketball player the primary seems to be the best solution for readers, who are clearly overwhelmingly looking for that page by a wide, wide margin over the one other subject.--Yaksar (let's chat) 15:31, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination and also per Deryck C. and Ortizesp insofar as they agree to WP:NOPRIMARY and the creation of a disambiguation page. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:20, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom, then the dab page should be primary. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 09:40, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Question Even with the historian at the primary topic, the basketball player seems to get 99 percent or so of the pageviews, and dominates search results as well. Is there a reason why the basketball player would not be the primary over the academic given there are only two subjects at this name?--Yaksar (let's chat) 15:25, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Yaksar and Station1: The basketball player only started his NBA career in 2018, whereas the art historian has been a prominent academic since before Wikipedia was born. It would be WP:Recentism to decide the basketball player should replace the art historian as the primary topic based on recent view statistics. Deryck C. 21:29, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I get that when it's two subjects of potentially great notability -- but in this case we have a historian that is certainly notable but not particularly well known, vs a subject that is getting scores more views. We actively can see that readers are desiring to get to one page, and have been for years, and our disambiguation policy is designed to aid reader navigation, not impede it.--Yaksar (let's chat) 06:01, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. And WP:Recentism is "where an article has an inflated or imbalanced focus on recent events", such as breaking news. It doesn't really have to do with article titles. In any case, although I linked to pageviews for the past 20 days, looking back for at least 4 years will show primary usage. Station1 (talk) 06:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Despite arguments to the contrary by people who don't like what it says, WP:RECENTISM has always validly been used in RM discussions. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Often, yes, but not always validly. IMO, a week or a month might be recent, but 4+ years as primary topic is not. Station1 (talk) 17:22, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support and move Duncan Robinson (basketball) to this title as the overwhelming WP:PRIMARYUSAGE indicated by pageviews. - Station1 (talk) 18:38, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support if anything the basketball player is primary but that might be recentism so at least a DAB should be at the base name. So yes per Ortizesp either the DAB or basketballer should be at the base name. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:33, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Moving the basketball player to the primary, as pageview stats over multiple years, plus search results, indicate a clear primary topic over a relatively unknown alternative.--Yaksar (let's chat) 05:59, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support. But no primary topic, unless when I wasn't looking we decided on a policy that every American sportsman takes precedence over everyone else because, you know, America has lots and lots of people who all like sports and look up their favourite players on Wikipedia... And ergo overnight we turned into American Wikipedia! -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:01, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We do have a policy about how to decide primary topics, and I am failing to find the part that says "this does not apply for athletes, who cannot be a primary topic." Regardless, it is probably better to address that in a cleaner, separate move discussion proposed somewhere down the line.--Yaksar (let's chat) 15:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Of course they can, but only if they're massively well-known internationally and not only by fans of a particular sport in a particular country. Robinson doesn't fall into this category. Big sports fans tend to be the sort of people who obsessively look up the objects of their worship on the internet, which increases hits enormously. I don't think this is a good indicator of primacy to be used in a serious encyclopaedia. Note that the other Duncan Robinson is a noted academic with a CBE who was for a decade head of one of the most notable colleges at one of the world's premier universities. To claim he is less primary than a player known in one sport in one country and more or less unknown outside fans of that sport and in that country is faintly ridiculous. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.