Talk:European Cup and UEFA Champions League records and statistics/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Notes, clarity

All-time top 25 European Champion Clubs' Cup and Champions League rankings - nowhere does it say whether it includes qualifying stages or just playoff round? It must be made clear. If you need another encyclopedia to understand the other it beats the purpose. Is it that hard to write a note??? 213.149.62.170 (talk) 22:45, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Also top by which criteria? Years played, wins, points?? 213.149.62.43 (talk) 21:23, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 May 2018

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. L293D (☎ • ✎) 21:19, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Changes recommended

Coaches

Other records

• José Villalonga Llorente is the youngest coach to win the competition with Real Madrid in 1955–56 at age 36 years and 185 days.
• Raymond Goethals is the oldest coach to win the competition with Marseille in 1992–93 at age 71 years and 232 days.

Players

Oldest and youngest

• Gary Mills, who didn't play the final match (António Simões should stay as well because he played the final in 1962), is the youngest player to win the competition with Nottingham Forest in 1978–79 at age 17 years and 201 days.

References

58.225.23.18 (talk) 11:21, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

@L293D: he obviously included the main section and the change with the reference ! for instance, you can add to the last section of "coaches, other records" the aforementioned info. For the players, you can add the written info as well ! 180.20.37.210 (talk) 14:36, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Defending the trophy

The only team to successfully defend the trophy in the Champions League era is Real Madrid (twice <- should be triple), who won in 2015–16, 2016–17 and 2017–18.

Defend title twice!

Most wins

Cristiano Ronaldo has won 100 matches in his Champions League career, the most by any player. 210.140.10.87 (talk) 22:13, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Done.

@Mediocre Legacy: Would you please consider these changes? Thanx.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 May 2018

Section 2.13 (Not winning the domestic league) should be updated since in the 2017-18 season Real Madrid won the Champions League but was only ranked third in the Spanish La Liga (see La Liga, season 2017-18. Please add 2018 at the end of the list of years when Madrid accomplished this (now only including 2000, 2014, 2016). Thank you. Ripero (talk) 09:38, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

 Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:10, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 May 2018

• Ancelotti has not coached any game for Napoli in UCL, the appearance table for coaches should be corrected. 210.140.10.87 (talk) 01:30, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

 Already done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 15:11, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Inaccurate ordering of wins by clubs table

In the first table listing European cups winners, Inter Milan should be likted above Manchester United to be consistent. As with other clubs with same number or wins and runners ups, the club to have won the cup earlier is listed above as can be seen in the list of all the teams with 1 win and 1 runner up. So to stick to this the ordering of Inter and ManU needs to be reversed. 38.124.22.179 (talk) 21:18, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Seems to have been done at some point. Fish+Karate 08:56, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 July 2018

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Danski454 (talk) 16:00, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Players

Other records

Oldest and youngest

• Moise Kean is the first player born in the 2000s to play in the Champions League for Juventus against Sevilla on 22 November 2016. 157.192.177.159 (talk) 03:52, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Captaincy

• Paolo Maldini is the oldest captain to lift the trophy with Milan in 2007, aged 38 years 10 months 27 days.
• Didier Deschamps is the youngest captain to lift the trophy with Marseille in 1993, aged 24 years 7 months 11 days.

References

Data and sources

@Pedrojohan14: I noticed that you edit here without using sources and even you distort the sourced content with other info, such as Ronaldo 37 total assists, you wrote 42 for Giggs, the source shows 31 ! Milner having 9 assists, you overwrote it with Figo ! and you wrote 97 wins for Ronaldo, even though the refs mention 99 wins+1 later in the final in the already written sources, he actually won 98. see here ! such behavior is not acceptable !

You should read the sources of the related content before editing, or you should include a new reliable source related to your new edits, other than that all your edits must be reverted ! Thanx. 122.132.14.60 (talk) 23:21, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

How do I add a font? I'm new here, and I just want to show the truth.

I reviewed all the games of Giggs (42 assists), Beckham (35), Figo (31) etc ...

UEFA says CR7 has 37 and Giggs 31, but they are wrong, or possibly count since the 2002/03 season, because it has no other explanation. Pedrojohan14 (talk) 07:10, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@Pedrojohan14: I warned you not to vandalize the sourced content ! You deleted Milner 9 assists for no reason, I kept Figo stats ! The UEFA source shows Ronaldo 37 and Giggs 31. It is the official stats, in their website they wrote stats starting from 2002–03 season in tables, but maybe they already have Giggs' stats before 2002–03 in the total assists stats as well, if you can provide a reliable source to support your claim then do it, but for now keep the sourced content as it is ! You should cite a website which states Giggs has 42 assists, and by the way, Transfermarkt is not considered to be a reliable source here !

You claim Iniesta to be in the top assist list for the 2014–15 UEFA Champions League, just read the article which is sourced by the UEFA website, the article shows Messi 6 Iniesta 5 !

I provided a new source regarding Ronaldo's 98 wins. You keep writing 97 with no source whatsoever !

Please refrain from your disruptive edits, your contribution is not helping at all, you try to force your opinion but the fact is that this platform is built on consensus, so if you want to argue something, you should write here first before vandalizing the article without using sources ! Thanx. 110.163.134.17 (talk) 09:30, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

You should believe less than reading and watching more. check yourself for VIDEO bidding, UEFA organizes the competition, but who puts the statistics on the site are trainees, and they make mistakes.

By the way, I do not use Transfermarkt as a source, but I can tell you Whoscored, which is great.

And where did you get James Milner to have 9 assists in the 2017/18 season?

Whoscored, Transfermarkt, ESPN FC, OPTA. all means of statistics say he gave 8 assists.

Where did UEFA take it they are 9 assists ?? Pedrojohan14 (talk) 11:57, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@Pedrojohan14: the source is already included for Milner. see this [1].

Cristiano assist stats should be mentioned because he is still active.

You use blogs such as: reddit as your source instead of UEFA publications ! how fancy ! blogs are not accepted here !

You consider whoscored, Squawka and worldfootball.net are more reliable than UEFA.com ! madness !

I told you to argue here before editing or I will notify the board to block you since being disruptive ! 110.163.134.17 (talk) 12:58, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@Pedrojohan14: Why don't you simply provide your reliable sources instead of this disruptive behaviour ! Don't you understand the rules here ?! this is the last warning if you keep reverting edits, you would be blocked indefinitely ! 110.163.134.17 (talk) 13:32, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@Pedrojohan14: I warned you not to use "Transfermarkt" as a source here ! you used with the 97 wins thing ! I already provided a source for the count of 98 ! PROVIDE RELIABLE SOURCED OR STOP YOUR DAMN DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOUR ! 110.163.134.17 (talk) 13:49, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

I have already provided my sources, are you blind?

I just do not know how to include them in the middle of the statistics.

And what are your sources? Because so far I have not seen any. just a ridiculous link from UEFA over James Milner's false 9-assist grade. Pedrojohan14 (talk) 13:46, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@Pedrojohan14: First of all, watch your language, read this Civility.

Secondly, your sources such as Transfermarkt are not acceptable here, I did not put the main rules here ! Don't include your sources before posting them here. I am trying to help you by figuring out the correct info same as you do, but I prefer to use reliable sources. If you have any reliable source post it here, then we can discuss. For Milner, Uefa mentioned the story by itself, so why should we exclude him ?!

Please if you want to add anything, post it here first, I can help you to organize the main article. Cheers. 110.163.134.17 (talk) 13:58, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@PeeJay2K3: could you please block this user Pedrojohan14. He does not follow the rules of discussion and keep reverting edits ! 110.163.134.17 (talk) 14:11, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I'm not capable of blocking or banning other users as I'm not an admin, just a vigilant editor. – PeeJay 14:39, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Cities with multiple representatives

In the template about cities with multiple representatives in the semi-finals, there is Milan missing with 21 (Milan 13 + Inter Milan with 8)--Baronedimare (talk) 09:10, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Qualifying from first qualifying round

Regarding this part: "No team has progressed to the group stage from the first qualifying round since the competition format was altered for the 2009–10 season."

Red Star Belgrade became the first club to progress to the group stage from the first qualifying round, this season. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_UEFA_Champions_League#Qualifying_rounds)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2018

Clarence Seedorf never appeared in the Champions League while playing for Internazionale. You should remove the club from the list of his clubs in the top appearances table. 178.149.170.108 (talk) 14:05, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --DannyS712 (talk) 03:37, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Unclear whether Q round included

Does section All-time top 25 European Champion Clubs' Cup and Champions League rankings includes Q rounds. If so, it should be stated so it's clear because somewhere those matches are considered part of the competition. If not, it should also be stated. 213.149.51.153 (talk) 19:14, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Also Valencia has 54 W and 33 L and 195 points which puts her on the list. 213.149.51.153 (talk) 19:17, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

This is still ignored and I don't see a reason why. It seems based upon looking at some teams' records that that table includes Q rounds. It's important information beacause if a club starts early in Q phase they potentially have more games than clubs that start in GS. Also, with due respect to clubs like Celtic it's kind of weird seeing that they have cca 100 wins given their (extra low) number of (late) KO phase appearances. It's not the same to boost statistic against clubs in Q phase and play in GS. All I want to say that it's important to note whether statistic (this and other ones) includes Q phase or not . Setenzatsu.2 (talk) 08:12, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Assisting

@Ayenay: We do not want an edit war here ! You remove the stats "because of improper sources" ! YouTube videos show each assist for Giggs and Ronaldo. Other stats are documented based on each season/final. Your contribution by simply removing them is pure vandalism ! If you want to discuss the stats here, you are welcome, otherwise your edits would not be accepted according to many editors here as well! UniSail2 (talk) 13:09, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

YouTube is not a valid source because you're basically just looking at the game yourself and making your own assessment, which is the definition of a WP:PRIMARYSOURCE. We have to go by what other sources have concluded, not do our own original research. – PeeJay 13:27, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

@PeeJay2K3: My own assessment ?! I won't repeat what I've already written, but honestly it is sad that some people won't accept accuracy over "what other sources have concluded" ! UniSail2 (talk) 13:52, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, your own assessment. Who says that YouTube video is accurate? You? That's what makes it a primary source. If it's inaccurate, that's really annoying, but it's not our job to make those corrections. Wikipedia's policy is verifiability, not truth. – PeeJay 14:50, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

We can't use Youtube as a source because your interpretation of the game might be different to UEFAs. Take the World Cup final for example. I think Griezmann scored from the free kick because he was initially on target, but FIFA considers it an own goal. I have been trying to look for good sources on assisting statistics but it's difficult since they haven't been archived for every season. We should follow the guidelines. --Ayenay (talk) 14:25, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:17, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

List of teams by semi-final appearances

The list of teams ordered by number of semi-final appearances is absolutely ridiculous. The official UEFA Champions League stats handbook lists only semi-final appearances from the Champions League era, and they also have a list of all the teams that have reached the quarter-finals, not just the semis. A far better thing for us to include, rather than a comprehensive list, would be a single line saying "Real Madrid have reached the Champions League semi-finals the most times with 14; Bayern have reached the quarter-finals the most with 19 appearances at that stage". Anything more would be gratuitous and self-indulgent. – PeeJay 13:57, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

WP:CALC applies, but by changing the section heading we could make it more clear and remove the earlier content that is out of place. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:48, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

WP:CALC may apply, but we need to use some editorial judgement. A comprehensive list of every semi-finalist ever isn't really that encyclopaedically valuable. It would be useful to a football statistician like myself who might need it for work, but that's the definition of CRUFT. – PeeJay 08:29, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello, the semi-final is very important, there are many people wondering what clubs were able to reach this advanced stage, I do not know what is wrong with you, and why you see every statistic that does not suit you is ridiculous, this statistic is very important in a competition that is considered the largest at the club level --Mishary94 (talk) 01:06, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

You can't just say "this is interesting to a lot of people" without backing that up. I can just as easily say "this isn't interesting to anyone". What I have instead done is pointed out that the level of information is excessive, which it is. We do not need a list of every team to reach the semi-finals, even UEFA doesn't publish that information in their stats handbooks; if it was that important, surely they would. By your argument, anyone could add a list of teams who have reached the quarter-finals, round of 16, group stage, qualifiers, etc. because apparently people might wonder about that stuff. This should be limited to a mention of the team that has reached the semi-final the most often and nothing more. – PeeJay 06:56, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@PeeJay: @Mishary94: @Mediocre Legacy: All three of you have been around long enough to know that edit warring is not acceptable. Any further reverts from any of you without first reaching a consensus here will likely incur a block. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:48, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

It's crufty nonsense and should be removed. Victors and Runners up makes sense. Anything beyond that is the thin end of a wedge before we get to "times qualified from group stage" which the rest of the article is already seemingly completely obsessed with irrelevant minutiae. Koncorde (talk) 21:16, 19 May 2021 (UTC)