Talk:Félix Houphouët-Boigny/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

I will review this article. It looks likely, on the face of it, that it will easily pass GA, but in order to help the editors I will give it a full review report, though the promotion will be against GA criteria. Because of the article's length, and pressure on my time, the review will be in sections, spread over several days. Brianboulton (talk) 18:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some comments on the lead and early life sections

  • Lead: the description of Foccart as a spin-doctor reads oddly. A spin-doctor distorts policies to present them in a favourable light to the benefit of his political masters. Is this what Foccart did for de Gaulle and Pompidou? Also, I don't think the term had been invented at that time.
    • Basically, that's what he did. He worked behind the scenes so barely anybody had heard about him until he published his memoirs, Foccart Speaks. But spin-doctor might not be NPOV, so I have replaced it with "chief adviser". --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 11:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Childhood and education
    • As well as the link, we need to know the connection between Houphouët and the Baoulé. Was this his tribal group?
    • "He was the son of a Houphouet". What does this mean?
      • A guy whose last name was Houphouet (we do not know his fist name, see Personal life section) was his father. I rewrote it as "his father was named Houphouët". --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 11:50, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Re dates of education; are all of these dates authenticated? Did he earn a teaching degree at 16? If so, what is the relationship between this qualification and a standard university degree? Also, what are we to make of these dates if, as you suggest, he may have been seven years older?
      • Of course they're authenticated; that's the purpose of refs. It is very likely that he did not earn a teaching degree at 16, since he might have been 7 years older. The École William Ponty was not a university per se, so it could not give out university degrees. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 12:09, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think Brian's asking whether the references confirmed when he received his degree/diploma (do they have a document confirming the year when H-B graduated). Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:39, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • You say it is very likely that he did not earn his teaching degree at 16 because he might have been 7 years older. By the same reasoning, therefore, it is "very likely" that he started secondary school at 17. Yes? I don't doubt that you have used the dates provided by your references, but references are not of themselves authentications, and there seems to be something not fitting somewhere. My question remains - what are we to make of these dates if he was indeed seven years older? Brianboulton (talk) 22:48, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Medical career
    • The following sentence is in need of much attention/punctuation: "Deciding to act, he led a movement of farmers hostile to the major white farmers and to the economic policies of the colonizers which favoured them in 1932" I don't really know where to begin on this one, but as a minimum, "by 1932" should be near the beginning of the sentence, not at the end, "colonizers" should be "colonial government", and "them" has to be specified. The whole sentence needs a complete reconstruction.
      • Changed to "In 1932, he decided to act, leading a movement of farmers against the influential white landowners and for the economic policies of the colonial government, who favoured the farmers." --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 12:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • The phrase "chef de carton" needs to e explained on first mention.
  • Chef de carton
    • The legal action taken against him, and the consequences of that action, needs to be explained.
    • It is not clear how Houphouet's actions in creating a "multi-ethnic, all-African roll" assured a decisive victory for his African bloc. Also, how did he have the power to create an electoral roll that was officially accepted?
      • Clarified in text. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 13:18, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Clarified? Apparently he defied the French rules, created his own election machinery, hacked off everyone except his own supporters, and got away with it! How did he do it? Brianboulton (talk) 23:05, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Having entered local politics with the city council elections in October 1945, you say: "In October 1945 Houphouet moved onto the national political scene". Local and national politics simultaneously?
    • assemblee constituante must be explained. Also, I assume that Cote d'Ivoire and Upper Volta had two members each?
      • Explained. No, they had two members combined, also explained. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 14:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Rather than "two representatives in Parliament combined" I'd say "combined representation by wo seats in Parliament"Brianboulton (talk) 23:05, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More will follow. Brianboulton (talk) 21:13, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Member of parliament
    • "Palais Bourbon" needs explaining in the text, rather than relying on a link to a substandard article
    • He "filed a report on the public health system". Was this the public health system in Cote d'Ivoire, or generally?
    • You need to be consistent in the spelling of "coloniser" - it's given a "z" earlier.
      • Where? --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 14:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, you've craftily edited out "colonizers" in the Medical career section, but you've still got "decolonization" in third line of lead, and "colonization" later in the article. Brianboulton (talk) 23:05, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the original coloniser would become subordinate to its former colonies". I understand what this means - France would cease to be master in its own house - but the point could be made much more clearly.
      • I added a wiktionary link to "subordinite", for those that don't know what it means. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 14:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • The meaning of "subordinate" isn't the problem, it's the clumsiness of the phrasing. Brianboulton (talk) 23:09, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • A date should be given for the foundation of the Fourth Republic
    • "A secretary for the commission..." Should this be "As secretary..."?
    • What is Conseil fédérale?
    • The phrase "on numerous occasions" is misplaced in the final sentence.

More later. Brianboulton (talk) 21:36, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Foundation of RDA
    • First para should be split at the "Too small..." sentence. Alternatively, reduce the earlier part of the para, which is somewhat over-detailed, to a short sentence or two.
    • "...especially when the PCF began opposing the Communists in 1947". I thought the PCF were the communists, so who were they opposing? Also, why the "especially"?
    • "...thus avoided the fate of his political allies". Did they die? Otherwise the tern seems rather heavy.
  • Rehabilitation
    • "National Assembly": Is this the same as what has earlier been called "assemblee constitutionale" and "Palais Bourbon"? If so, you need to be consistent in usage of terms, if not the differences need explaining.
      • "Assemblee constitutionale" has never been mentioned in the text. "Palais Bourbon" was mentioned as a location, not a metaphor. I already am consistent in usage of the term. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 20:37, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "unsuccessfulness" isn't really a word; followed immediately by "renewing their success", it sounds particularly awkward. I'd say "frustration", or "disappointment", would be better.
      • Changed to "Houphouët-Boigny and the RDA were briefly unsuccessful before their success was renewed in 1956." --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 13:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "these roles": I think only one has been mentioned, so "this role"
    • Deal with clarification tags on "shared organisation" and "energetic independence"
    • Explain French Union
  • Pro-autonomy
    • What does this heading mean?
      • It means he was in favor of granting sovereignty to Côte d'Ivoire. I have renamed this section since it now contains a wide array of non-autonomy related topics. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 15:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "won many seats" - how many? 3 citations ought to provide this information
    • "a real political confronttion ensued..." Suggest delete "real", or find a better term
    • In the penultimate para, last sentence, "composed of Senegal and Mali" is redundant. Sugest "until" is replaced by "before"
    • Formulation such as "It was at that time that" should be avoided. You could say: "H-B had won his first victory..."
    • Some US$ or GB£ equivalent of the 21+ billion CFA francs would be useful.
    • After all the detail that has gone before, the proclamation of independence is introduced very suddenly, and is described in an off-hand manner, which makes me wonder about the structure of this section. There is no sense, before the final sentences, that the story is progressing towards independence, and Houphouet's motives come across as almost trivial. I think recosideration needs to be given as to how the question of independence is introduced.

I will continue with the review later. Brianboulton (talk) 11:00, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • President/Early years
    • 2nd sentence contains "although" and "but" - one is redundant (the "but" should go)
    • 3rd para, Arabs and Israel, sits oddly among paragraphs all devoted to internal politics. I think that this para would look better at the end of the section, where the quote would resonate more.
    • "What is certain is that..." is a journalistic phrase, which I think should be dropped from the sentence.
    • Some weird phrasings: "the generals stirred" and "intervened personally to sedate them". I'd change the first to "grew restive" and the second to "pacify".
    • He reduced the armed forces to "a minimum", but what does that mean? It could mean almost anything, and needs at least approximate quantification

Sorry, must rest now. Brianboulton (talk) 23:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Leadership in Africa
    • "...De Gaulle, who refused proposals for an integrated Europe..." What is this referring to?
    • The adoption of a bullet-pony format is unwelcome, and in my view would be better rendered as prose
    • You have "Ivory Coast" in first bullet-point, "Cote d'Ivoire" in second
    • The words "pressure from are unnecessary (implied by protests)
    • "The Ivorian president committed to providing financia support to allies" could be simplified to "The Ivorian president provided financial support to allies..."
    • I'm not sure that "allegiance" is the right term here - it implies subordination. Wouls it be better to say "backing for" instead of "allegiance to"?
    • "comprising", not "comprising of"
    • "departure of all but eight" is a strange way of putting it, when there were only 16 to begin with. As many stayed as went. I'd rephrase this.
    • The term "trade unions" in the final para has a specific meaning to British readers who will be confused by its use here. Could you say "trade partnerships" or some such?
    • The final sentence is awkwardly put together - needs rephrasing in the middle part. Suggest: "...assurances from Nigria that ECOWAS would function in the same manner as the earlier Francophone organiations..."
  • Destabilization
    • Suggest the section begins "By claiming independence from..." rather than "By granting independence to..."
    • Can you explain/reword the sentence: "His operations were immediately placed in quarantine in Conakry"?
    • SDECE has not been previously introduced or explained
    • The Man region of where?
    • He "incited his counsel" - his legal adviser? I assume this should be "council" - which council?
      • I think that's a fairly obvious mistranslation, so I corrected it. Nousernamesleft (talk) 23:52, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Second para: "Since" is wrong beginning. Suggest: "Following Guinea's independence..."
    • Penult. para: clarify who "he" is at start of second sentence
      • I think it's quite clear from what it says about this "he", so I clarified. Nousernamesleft (talk) 23:52, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Expulsed" is a made-up word. "Expelled".

Note to editors: I have so far spent many hours on this review, and am only at the half-way mark. My intention, as stated at the beginning, was to give as much help as possible to the editors by providing a close review of the text, rather than general comments. The number of issues I have had to raise, together with fixing typos and some copyediting, also the considerable length of the article, have greatly extended my time commitment. My readthrough of the second half indicates that an equally large number of issues are likely to arise, and I simply don't have the time to continue in the same way.

What I propose is this. I shall put the article on a seven-day hold. That should give the editors time to deal with the remaining issues from my detailed review, and also to find someone to check over the prose in the second half of the article. I am impressed by the amount of work that has gone into this article, and I find the subject-matter interesting, but the prose standard, overall, is quite poor and frankly, hard work to get through. Some of this may be due to it's being translated, but there are numerous careless mistakes and uncorrected typos throughout the text. I also believe that the editors have been over-ambitious in the amount of detail they have included, and that a judicious pruning would be a good idea. At the end of the seven-day period, I will read the article again, and conclude the GA review at that point. Brianboulton (talk) 15:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, we'll get to work. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 22:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Enigma message 19:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resumed review[edit]

I am resuming my review, not on a line-by-line basis, but commenting on each remaining section in turn. I'll post as I go, and try to finish before the end of today. Here are my first comments:-

  • The sections entitled Alignment with France and Mutual support are essentially about the same thing, and should be combined into a single, much shorter section. There is way too much detail here; a few simple sentences stating HB’s policy alignment with France in various African post-colonial crises, and over relations with South Africa, will be sufficient. The general policy principles, not the details, are important. The second section contains the unexplained term “burkinababes”, and an obvious mistranslation “which irked of French involvement”.
    • Removed "Mutual support" section heading. H-B's policy alignment with France is one of the most important facets of his political career. I can trim that section a bit, but I don't feel comfortable removing that much detail. This was all important aspects of H-B's rule. Added link to "burkinabés"—it's the demonym for the people of Burkina Faso. Reworded the coup sentences. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opposition to Soviet Union and China
  • Economic policies in 1960s and 1970s
    • Try to avoid repetition of "most notably" in first para. Too many detailed facts and figures in 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. The broad issue of economic progress has been fully established in para 1, and it would be better to go from there straight to para 4: "This economic progress profoundly altered..." etc The first sentence of the final para also needs some attention, "Mainly in the economy" is not appropriate in a section entirely about economic progress. The "rare example" statement is opinion, unless specifically cited. I assume that the terms "Ivorian miracle", "Sage of Africa" and "The Old One" are all found in citation [11].
      • Reworded second "most notably". Removed most of the second and all of the third paragraphs. Removed "mainly in the economy". Removed "rare example" text. All quoted terms are found in ref 11. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 04:15, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Review continues. Brianboulton (talk) 10:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Economy on brink of collapse
    • The first para would have more impact if it was preceded by "However," and shifted to become the final paragraph of the previous section.
    • Again, the clarity of the article is affected by over-detailing. The following sentence is particularly difficult to unravel: "Beginning from 1979, in order to contain a sudden drop in exported goods prices, the government attempted to resist the tariffs on raw materials established by the international markets by trying to impose artificially higher prices." I’d stick to the basic facts: the economy declined as a result of a fall in world coffee and cocoa prices, HB’s efforts in London to negotiate a price agreement failed, the petrochemical industry suffered during the world recession of the late 1980s, and the overseas debt reached monumental proportions. All this can be said in simple general terms, in an article which is basically about a president rather than his country.
      • Changed to "From 1979, in order to contain a sudden drop in the prices of exported goods, Houphouët-Boigny raised the prices to resist international tariffs on raw materials." The recession is a major point in HB's life. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 18:38, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Social tensons
    • "…induced a harsh degradation…" Verbose: try "brought a sharp fall"
      • I'm not sure if "fall" conveys the idea very well, so I kept "degredation". Nousernamesleft (talk) 17:20, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • How did a reduction of French volunteer workers from 3,000 to 2,000 liberate “thousands” of jobs?
  • Opposition
    • Some of the material not directly related to HB, e.g. the final sentence of the second para, could be removed.
    • Chronology of last para needs clarifying. "A year later…" - than when?
      • I'm not sure what's wrong here. It seems clear from the context that it was a year after "had been harassed by Houphouët-Boigny's government for his trade union activities" - perhaps you want a specific year for that? Nousernamesleft (talk) 17:20, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Review to be continued and completed shortly. Brianboulton (talk) 11:08, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Scandals etc
    • I’m not sure that "embezzlement" is the right term in line 1 – the linked article is unhelpful. Why not simply "a case of overcharging", perhaps emphasises as "a case of massive overcharging".?
    • Couldn’t understand the following: "Through their nearly complete control of the program, politicians filed administrative leases for their housing, and then rented it to other public officials to collect on payments from LOGEMAD;" – another example, I think, of unnecessary over-explanation
    • Why choose the word "pharaonic" to describe the Basilica? It’s an obscure word, and the link doesn’t say which of the meanings is intended. You should choose a more recognisable adjective. Also, the details regarding this construction could be edited down.
  • Succession and death
    • "Alassane Ouattara...was rejected…" etc. By whom?
    • The President of the National Assembly has changed during the course of the paragraph. Can you clarify how/when Phillipe Yace ceased to hold this office?
  • Funeral – no particular comment, excellently written
  • Aftermath: several problems here, of uncited statements (e.g. "had neither his predecessor’s vision nor his charisma"), and awkward phrasings (e.g. "conceived in 1995 of the concept of…" Since this section isn’t really about HB, I wonder if it needs to be here at all, especially after the impressive funeral section. I’d consider dropping it.
  • Peace prize
    • The sentence beginning "The prize is named after…" is too long and needs to be split into two, possibly three.
    • Needless repetition of full prize name at start of para 2. Could begin simply: "The prize was first awarded..." The exhaustive list of subsequent winners is unnecessary – a couple of examples would suffice.
  • Personal life: Much of this information, particularly in the first paragraph, belongs in the Early life section. I think it’s a great shame to end the article with this section of fairly trivial details, and wonder if such details as are thought necessary could be inserted earlier in the article, which could then end on the grand notes of the funeral and peace prize.

Naturally, you will need time to respond to and/or implement these suggestions. I would very much like to see this article promoted if attention can be given to these points. In particular, in my view the readability of the article will be much improved by some fairly bold editing of overdetailed sections. Brianboulton (talk) 12:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Added later: I have repositioned four left-side images which appeared to be violating WP:MoS by appearing directly under subheadings. Two are still on the left, dropped down slightly, two I have shifted over to the right. If you're unhappy with my positionings and have better ideas within MoS, please go ahead. Brianboulton (talk) 21:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for handling that, Brian. I always forget about WP:MOSIMAGES! Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 22:28, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Can you let me know when you are done so that I can conclude the review? Brianboulton (talk) 15:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think we've responded to all your comments now. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 17:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • There's an inuse tag on the Early Life section at present. I'll wait for that. Brianboulton (talk) 19:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • Alright. Risker has started copyediting the article. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 20:02, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • Odd time to start copyediting, 15 days into a GA review! I'm thinking, 24 hours maximum, the review must close - it's gone on long enough. It won't matter if the copyedit isn't complete, the article won't fail GA on that. I'll do the final report this time tomorrow. Brianboulton (talk) 21:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Final GA Review comments

General: I feel this is an important article, which has been massively researched and painstakingly compiled. Its main problem, at least at the start of the review, was that it was far from easy to read, due in my view to a mixture of somewhat indifferent prose and considerable overdetailing. The prose has been made clearer, and will resumably improve further when the current copyediting exercise is finished. Also, some 700-odd words have been excised during the review, as detail has been pared down. This has made the article distinctly more readable. I think there is still scope for further reduction, and recommend that this is seriously considered before the article is taken to FAC.

GA criteria

  • Well-written: Pass (marginal). There is a variability in the prose standard, some sections being very well written, others less so. A thorough copyedit should improve matters.
  • Factually accurate: Pass: I have considered WP:NONENG here. If I could understand more clearly what this regulation is about, I might have something to say about verifiability, but since I can't, I can only say that your sources look reliable to me.
  • Broad coverage: Pass, most definitely.
  • Neutral: Pass
  • Stable: Pass
  • Images: Pass. The location map could be larger. Some images appear to lack descriptions and author information, so watch for the FAC image police.

Overall: Pass. I have spent a good deal more time on this than normally do on GA reviews, because I have seen this as preparation for featured status. I hope my participation and comments have helped; there is more work to do. Good luck if you do decide to take it forward. Brianboulton (talk) 20:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you Brian for your very thorough GA review. We will continue to work on this article (copyediting/trimming/adding English sources) before taking this to WP:FAC. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 22:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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