Talk:Fairmont Beijing

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File:Beijing Reignwood Theatre.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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Sourcing for first[edit]

@Cunard if you have a moment/interest, might you have a bead on sourcing for this being the first Fairmont and/or first luxury property in Beijing? Clearing out an old backlog and love to de-tag this if we can source that. My search is only coming up with booking sites that are just re-stating the company's claim. Thanks either way! Star Mississippi 18:22, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Star Mississippi (talk · contribs), thank you for the suggestion to review this! I've rewritten the article.

Sources:

  1. Commanducci, Massimo (2007-09-29). "Just in time for the Summer Olympics". The Globe and Mail. Archived from the original on 2022-09-18. Retrieved 2022-09-18.

    The article notes: "In a city starved for hotel rooms ahead of next year's Summer Olympics, Fairmont Hotels & Resorts and the Reignwood Group this week announced the construction of the Fairmont Beijing, scheduled to open in the summer."

  2. "北京华彬费尔蒙酒店" [Fairmont Beijing]. China Daily (in Chinese). 2020-11-04. Archived from the original on 2022-09-18. Retrieved 2022-09-18.

    The article notes that Fairmont Beijing opened in October 2010.

  3. Caswell, Mark (2008-08-15). "Beijing hotels round-up". Business Traveller. Archived from the original on 2022-09-18. Retrieved 2022-09-18.

    The article notes: "Fairmont is set to open its first property in China before the end of 2008. The 25-storey Fairmont Beijing will be located in the downtown Central Business District, and features 235 rooms, several restaurants and bars, meeting space and a multi-purpose theatre, and a 930sqm spa."

  4. Sponagle, Michele (2007-12-29). "5 best reasons why 2008 will be a great travel year". Ottawa Citizen. Archived from the original on 2022-09-18. Retrieved 2022-09-18 – via Newspapers.com.

    The article notes: "2. Opening of the Fairmont Beijing. Next summer will see Fairmont's first property in China open its doors, bringing Canadian-style hospitality to Asia."

The hotel opened in October 2010 but was originally scheduled to open in the summer of 2008. I founded sources published in 2007 and 2008 saying that Fairmont Beijing would be the first Fairmont in China. The sources were published before the hotel opened. I could not find any sources published after the hotel opened verifying that it was the first Fairmont (it is possible that the delay in opening led to another Fairmont opening before it). So I added the wording, "The hotel, which was planned to be the first Fairmont hotel in China, opened in October 2010."

Cunard (talk) 10:31, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WOW. Thank you so much! Above and beyond as usual. So grateful you were able to find so much, and hope it's selected for DYK. Star Mississippi 00:29, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the kind words! I had some time this week and felt like doing some article improvement, so the completely unsourced Fairmont Beijing was the perfect article to work on. Cunard (talk) 08:30, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Ad tag[edit]

  • @Mean as custard: I have read it, multiple times. I still disagree. Can you please explain the issues you see with the article so Cunard and I can address them. Drive by tagging isn't particularly helpful in terms of fixing the content. Thanks! Star Mississippi 13:37, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • At least 90 per cent of the article consists of material praising the hotel's amenities. I am inclined to remove it all, but then there would be very little left. . . Mean as custard (talk) 17:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks. While I think some content could be trimmed, it's not enough to merit removal. It's a notable property. Guess we'll see what others' opinions are by virtue of the ad tag. I disagree strongly with it, but won't edit war Star Mississippi 22:39, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thank you for reviewing the article, Star Mississippi. I agree with the removal of the ad tag. I agree that the "Amenities" section should be retained but am open to any suggestions about tightening it.

          Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Due and undue weight says, "Neutrality requires that mainspace articles and pages fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources."

          Of all the sources I reviewed about Fairmont Beijing, only Fodor's has any negative material:

          • Brewer, Stephen; Rambow, John; Trefler, Caroline, eds. (2015). Fodor's Beijing. New York: Fodor's. ISBN 978-1-101-87862-0. Retrieved 2022-09-18.

            The book notes: "Pros: handy for business and shopping; great executive lounge; excellent spa facilities. Cons: traffic can be grueling; breakfast is mediocre; surrounded by offices".

          I included this in the "Location" section of the article as "Fodor's lauded the hotel for being very convenient for retail customers and those conducting business. The travel publisher said the downsides were that traffic could be "grueling" and offices were located all around the hotel."

          There is no other negative material I can include in the article as I could find nothing else negative in reliable sources. If I have missed anything, please post the sources here. The "Amenities" section has four paragraphs: (1) rooms, (2) restaurants, (3) the club, spa, and fitness venues, and (4) additional amenities and services. All of this is sourced to reliable sources. All of this is due weight about what amenities the hotel provides to its customers and what reliable sources think about those amenities. It is all positive material because I cannot find any negative material. No reliable sources that I found have been negative about the rooms, the restaurants, or other amenities from the hotel. Cunard (talk) 07:34, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

          Thanks @Cunard. I absolutely agree with your position on the balance. When I said trim, I was thinking more along the lines of information such as breakfast, cocktails, meeting rooms, a seating area which might change more often than we can maintain given the flux in the hospitality industry in general, and especially during COVID where many amenities look different. But I don't feel strongly that it needs to go as, as you said, it's well sourced. Star Mississippi 13:36, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
          That's a really good suggestion, thank you. I've removed the information about the breakfast, cocktails, and afternoon tea as that could change more often. I've kept the part about the meeting rooms and seating areas as they should still be in lounge even if they may still be unused right now during COVID. Cunard (talk) 05:31, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 13:53, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(
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5x expanded by Cunard (talk). Self-nominated at 10:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC).[reply]

  • Not super familiar with DYK these days, just dropping a note in support of @Cunard:'s amazing work on this article. I was just hoping he'd be able to find a source to the claim of notability and we now have an amazing article. Star Mississippi 13:30, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment/question: Is it right to say that Routledge said this? My understanding is that Routledge is the publisher of the book; isn't it the authors of the book who said this? Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 21:54, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: No - I agree with User:Chocmilk03 that it's odd for the hook to attribute the quote to the publisher Routledge. Can we adjust the hook?
QPQ: Done.

Overall: A few minor concerns. In addition to those mentioned above, the translation "Ride to Beijing" seems odd to me – does that translation come from one of the sources? If not, I think "Ride Beijing" may be a better translation. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 21:54, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1, ALT2, and ALT3 are approved. I've also corrected a typo. Thanks for the fixes and for expanding the article. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 10:25, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Mx. Granger and Cunard: I'm... a little hesitant to come off as tokenizing these workers; is there anything to that concern? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 00:43, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The book Sustainable Champions: How International Companies are Changing the Face of Business in China notes on pages 30–31:

1.8 Social responsibility efforts

In another venture, Fairmont has started to work with children with Down's syndrome. In China the government usually looks after children with Down's syndrome until they are 14; then they are sent back to their families. Many do not get to play an active party in society. People with disabilities in China often have fewer opportunities than the general population. Of the 19 to 21 million such people in China, only 7.1% have meaningful employment. In Beijing, there is a special commune, Te Eo Farm, which tries to integrate with intellectual disabilities into society by providing work for them in orchards or helping farmers. ... Fairmont buys fruit (apples, pears, peaches and apricots) from the farm to support the workers in their desire to contribute to society. ... Fairmont currently is the only hotel that buys from the special commune.

...

With the assistance of a job trainer, Fairmont hopes to help students from the special commune feel more empowered. As Reto Borer says, "they have their dreams, aspirations, and wishes for themselves and their families. If Fairmont can make a difference here, then that is corporate social responsibility." At Fairmont Beijing, uniquely for any hotel in China, there are already three employees with learning disabilities.

The hotel is attempting to engage in corporate social responsibility through helping people with learning disabilities. It purchases food from farms staffed by people with intellectual disabilities. It employs works who have learning disabilities. I don't think the hotel has tokenized these workers. I think this DYK hook is respectful of the people with intellectual disabilities and is not tokenizing them but will defer to others' opinion on this. Cunard (talk) 05:58, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'll say that the hotel might be in the clear, but by us emphasizing it, that might be tokenism. Just to clarify. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 06:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
From tokenism, "Tokenism is the practice of making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to be inclusive to members of minority groups, especially by recruiting people from underrepresented groups in order to give the appearance of racial or gender equality within a workplace or educational context."

I don't see this DYK hook as making "making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to be inclusive to members of minority groups". Cunard (talk) 07:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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