Talk:Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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Reworked FMLN entry

I have done some work to fix the many problems with this page. I have fixed (and in some cases removed) much of the grammar and unclear English. I have added some information. I have removed things that were obviously not from a NPOV. There is still more work I'd like to do on this page, but I think that I have done enough to warrant removing the NPOV warning at the top as well as the 'copyediting needed' notice at the top. Who can make that decision? Can I just do it myself? --Takealeft 6/6/2006

--

I am going to remove the NPOV warning and the 'copyediting needed' notice at the top of this entry. I think I have done enough work on it to have resolved those issues. If someone disagrees, please discuss here. Thanks. --Takealeft 6/7/2006

Edits: Grammatical, etc.

Removed: "a group that headed a single handed pro cuban insurrectionist leftist movement within the country as early as the 1960's" because it was poorly written, grammatically incorrect (capitalization?), because this article is not about the Sandinistas, and because while the Sandinistas were supported by and ideologically aligned with the Cuban revolution, their raison d'être was the liberation of Nicaragua rather than support of the Cuban revolution. By that logic, the French Revolution was pro-American. Also, please sign edits. Durito 22:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Edited: "Unity of the various formations was not immediate nor a natural result within the battle for the alleged ¨equality¨ that the radical socialists waged", due to lack of clarity and failure to adhere to NPOV and encyclopedic standards. For example, "radical" in this context is a perjorative term rather than a technical one clarifying a particular subset of socialism. Furthermore, the paragraph seemed to be arguing that the FMLN was primarily a Cuban conspiracy, rather than a Salvadoreno movement. --Durito 22:10, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Added copyedit and POV-check templates. I did some clean-up, but haven't finished. Most of the mess seems to be the result of poor editing done to the original article by an anonymous user. Durito 22:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll be happy to copyedit here too: it's a well-done article and deserves to be presented / heard / discussed etc., controversial or not. But the NPOV elements are too glaring, and I hesitate qua mere copyeditor to eliminate them: for instance,

"they went into exile due to the unlawful military administration governments activities..."

-- and --

"Other opinions within the country clearly express hope within the actions of FMLN as their campaign is focused on the socialist aspects of assisting the repressed populations affected by extreme poverty and the ever decreasing natural resources within El Salvador..."

-- both of which read like a political platform / propaganda, 1970s MaosLittleRedBook stuff, very dated sloganeering -- not needed, here, to make the FMLF point, and simply enraging to the opposition. So if someone else pls would get rid of these two statements and others like them, mere copyeditors like me then can help with the rest: leave that stuff in, tho, and this entire very good article will die for being non-NPOV -- which would be a loss both for its writers and for the Wikipedia.

--Kessler 23:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I removed the fascist tag as it was clearly a silly mistake [Akimiv]

-This article sounds like someone's opinion at some point, almost like an editorial, specifically the "FMLN in armed struggle" section. Needs to be cleaned up and backed up with citations. [jorge] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.44.67.4 (talk) 22:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Elsalvador-fmln.jpeg

Image:Elsalvador-fmln.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Anamaria1.jpg

Image:Anamaria1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 02:30, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

NPOV?

"The US knew what their funds were being used for, but continued sending money to the extremist groups. All so that there would be no more socialist countries in the "backyard" of the United States and so they could extend their sphere of influence and continue on their imperialist ways. The US government along with the right wing el salvadoran government are responsible for the innocent deaths of women and children during the civil war. Both administrations run by greed and killing the poor who chose to stand against them."

• This hardly strikes me as neutral and encyclopedic (not that I'm denying that there's some truth in it..) This needs to be dealt with. -Etafly 22:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

• This was added in a single edit by Mixdelight. While I have no doubt that this edit is in good faith, it violates both WP:NPOV and WP:NOR, and is a prime example of WP:NOT. -Etafly 22:55, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Recent Elections?

Should there be mention of Mauricio Funes as the 2008 Presidential candidate for the FMLN? I should think that it would be worth mentioning, especially due to the FMLN's lead in the polls-- they're doing quite well, apparently, and have the advantage over ARENA, according to this article-- 33 percent of Salvadorans support the FMLN while only 23 percent back ARENA. (For an alternate viewpoint, there is an article on The Washington Post regarding Funes' elevation as Presidential Candidate.) This blog also has a lot of links to online magazines and newspapers related to the elections, if anyone would like to take a look at that. Yaminator (talk) 00:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Some mention of FMLN's success in Salvadoran legislative election, 2009 would be nice, please. --PFHLai (talk) 06:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Castro intervention? / Lack of citations

"It is rumored Fidel Castro invited the five organizations separately to Havana, where, once assembled, he prompted them to join together at gunpoint with an AK-47."

Where is the citation for this? This whole article lacks references/citations. As of this time, there are only two for the whole article. This Does Not Help Me AT ALL!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.127.1.224 (talk) 15:47, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Not sure about this part

"Citations for Salvadoran military bombing of civilian population: Douglas Tweedale, “Rebels pull back; Next move unclear in Salvador war,” United Press International, November 19, 1989 reports hours of bombardment of FMLN-occupied areas of San Salvador during the early morning of November 19. Via Ochoa thesis cited below.

Paying the Price: Ignacio Ellacuria and the Murdered Jesuits of El Salvador by Teresa Whitfield, Temple Press 1994, p. 3: "...the FMLN occupied areas that were poor and heavily populated. All feared the civilian cost of the armed forces' counteroffensive. Artillery and aerial bombardment had left some families trapped in their homes without food, water, or power; others were fleeing their neighborhoods, running through the streets beneath the paltry protection of white flags."

"El Salvador 1989: The Two Jesuit Standards and the Final Offensive", by Ignacio W. Ochoa, 2003, master's thesis in Latin American studies at San Diego State University, p. 56: "At daybreak [on November 18] army airplanes were dropping highly destructive bombs over the civilian areas under FMLN control; helicopters constantly flew over using heavy artillery. In response, the guerrillas began to use anti-aircraft artillery within the city itself." The author was in San Salvador, at and near the University of Central America campus, during November 1989.)"

Should it be removed from the page? Cited? Discuss. --VintageGuitarGuy (talk) 21:10, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Spanish Names

Does anybody know our policy with respect to translating Spanish names? This is the English wikipedia, and it seems that the large number of spanish names in this article really isn't helping anybody. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:12, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

SIEGE OF THE SHERATON HOTEL EL SALVADOR I have some doubt as to the veracity/accuracy of the statement that "One of the most famous battles in San Salvador took place in the Sheraton Hotel (13°41′27.36″N 89°14′31.15″W), where guerrillas and army soldiers battled floor-by-floor." According to my recollection of the news at the time and the article in TIME magazine (cited here: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,150736,00.html ) the siege of the US Green Berets by FMLN guerrillas in the Torre VIP of the Sheraton Hotel did not include a shoot out and was resolved peacefully.

79.190.56.141 (talk) 13:24, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

References

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Requested move 3 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) queen of 🖤 (they/them; chat) 23:37, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

---

Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front → FMLN – Per WP:COMMONNAME– Ngram Viewershows FMLN is more commonly used than the current title. Zinderboff(talk) 11:13, 3 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:23, 14 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. queen of 🖤 (they/them; chat) 19:36, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Central America has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:50, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject El Salvador has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Military history has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Britannica. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

  Britannica uses both names for the title and FMLN for the remainder of the encyclopaedic entry. FMLN already redirects here so there’s no other notable organisation with the same abbreviation. Google Ngram is clear that FMLN is far more commonly used than the current name. Zinderboff(talk) 03:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  Which is standard just like we do with this article, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations#Miscellanea for exceptions. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:26, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Rename to Frente Farabundo Martí para la Liberación Nacional. Translations are best avoided unless it can be shown that this is the common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

  Not a good idea per WP:ENGLISH. Zinderboff(talk) 00:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

  Not at all what WP:UE says, although frequently misinterpreted by editors. It categorically does not mandate slavish translation of everything into English. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

  Noted, thank you for the information. Zinderboff(talk) 15:35, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Per WP:AT: Abbreviations and acronyms are often ambiguous and thus should be avoided unless the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation and that abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject (e.g. PBS, NATO, Laser). MOS:ACROTITLE would essentially repeat this but does give further clarification regarding why we might not use the abbreviation/acronym. Briefly looking at this, a case may be made for the proposed move but it probably needs further evidence to show that it is commonly used alone and not with the full name usually being used to introduce the acronym. As for the Spanish name being used, my initial searches would indicate that the English translation is much more common and that the Spanish name should not be considered as the article's title. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:51, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - I think that WP:AT and MOS:ACROTITLE provide arguments against this rename, and I concur with what Cinderella157 said. I would be against the move at this time. Brat Forelli🦊 19:39, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above comment. Abbreviations are nice and all, but mean nothing if you dont already know its full meaning. Plenty of abbreviations could also have more than one meaning, complicating its use outside of circles familiar with the subject. Further oppose renaming the article to its native spanish name, as this might make it harder for some to find it, seeing as this is english wikipedia and readers would expect to find it under its english name, which should also be more than common enough on its own! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 19:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.