Talk:Freak Out!/Archive 1

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Tom Wilson's Viewpoint

Zappa has an interesting view of Wilson, that shifted from portraying him as a genius to a bumbling fool. It's highly unlikely that Wilson would have scheduled a 2 lp set with such an extraordinary budget if he thought they were just a 'white blues band'. He did have quite a groundbreaking resume already, maybe we should give him some credit? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.83.57.222 (talk) 03:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

Inspired Sgt. Pepper's

This is really interesting, but where can one find sources on this? I would love to know more about specifics. --Psycho78m 17:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

It's in the liner notes of Strictly Commercial: The Best of Frank Zappa, but just as a passing mention, no specifics. CaptHayfever 05:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Paul McCartney apparently told everyone else in The Beatles as they were about to record Sgt. Pepper. 'We need to do a good job on this. This should be our 'Freak Out!'." I'll find a source, it was in one Beatles book I read...-FeralCats

A search on the internet reveals that the quote should appear in Giuliano, Geoffrey (1991): "Blackbird: The Unauthorised Biography of Paul McCartney". Does anyone have this? It would be nice to have a better documentation than the current note, which is essentially just a reflection of Ryko's own "weasel word" backed reference. --HJ 20:20, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Track List Variants

Oddly, some versions of this CD seem to be missing "It Can't Happen Here". My copy from Japan is definitely without it. - 219.194.176.88 09:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I should clarify - it is appended to "Help I'm A Rock", which still clocks in at 8:39 or so as it does in the listing here. It doesn't have its own track. - 219.194.176.88 09:50, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Are you kidding? I once used to own all of FZ's LPs on vinyl, and never saw any such thing as a "track" on any of them -- one of their most distinguishing characteristics...! ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 14:01, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

First Double Album?

From the Article: "It is arguably the first double album and concept album in the history of rock music..." Now it may be the first concept album, but it certainly is not the first double album. Bob Dylan's Blonde On Blonde was released on May 16th, 1966, while this was released in July 1966. That's a nice buffer of about two months. I'm changing the article to match this. If someone knows why I'm wrong about this, feel free to let me know. I'm new to Freak Out! but am certainly not new to Blonde On Blonde. -Notahippie76

Unless there's some special extenuating circumstance, you are correct; Blonde on Blonde came out a couple of months before Freak Out! --Jacj 15:58, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

GA Review

I think this article is almost to GA standards. One thing that is very important is to provide a citations for what type of musical styles are found on the album. The article currently states: "The album's material ranges from R&B, doo-wop and standard blues-influenced rock to orchestral arrangements to dissonant, bizarre insanities and avant-garde sound collages." This statement needs a source.

The History section was confusing to me. I think this section needs to make clear that (a) the group had previously been performaing other people's material (include whose material if possible) (b) that this was their first album (c) that Who Are the Brain Police? is contained on this album. Also, what happened when Wilson realized they were not a white blues band?

If the above are corrected then I will promote to GA. Best, Johntex\talk 04:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, it all looks fixed now, I'm promoting to GA. Congratulations. Johntex\talk 22:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Help I'm a Rock

As of now the song is presented as being in three movements.

  • On the LP version from Old Masters there is no mention of three movements, and the song is dedicated to Elvis Presley. Shouldn't this latter fact be mentioned, and where does the three-movement information come from?
    • It's in the liner notes for every copy of the album that I've owned, including the MOFO box. Plus, it's here: [1] (Ibaranoff24 02:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC))
      • Interesting! It is not mentioned on my OM vinyl version, 1985 Zappa Records CD or the MOFO (4CD) box. But as your link says: "originally subdivided in 3 movements: 1. Okay To Tap Dance; 2. In Memoriam, Edgar Varèse; 3. It Can't Happen Here" (my emphasis). Instead, on all these three issues (which are later issues), it says "... is dedicated to Elvis Presley. Note the interesting formal structure and the stunning four part harmony toward the end. Note...". The reference to Elvis Presley is indeed also mentioned in the link you provide, leaving my original question unanswered.--HJ 15:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Zappa spelled Varese's first name "Edgar", but when following the Wikilink we get to "Edgard" Varese. I think Varese dropped the "d" when moving to the States. Is this worth mentioning in a note? And where does Zappa dedicate a part of "Help I'm a Rock" to Varese? --HJ 20:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
    • See above. It's the title of one of the movements. (Ibaranoff24 02:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC))
      • Fine - on some versions of the album. This, however, still leaves the part of my question about a note on spelling. BTW, on the MOFO box, the "d" has returned when quoting Varese on the present day composer.--HJ 15:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I thought about it, and added the bit about Elvis Presley to the article. (Ibaranoff24 05:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC))

Redirects of personell bios, and songs

I noticed that all players of the album are wikilinked. However, when clicking on several of them, one is redirected back to Freak Out! This will certainly annoy a lot of people. Why has this been done????? --HJ 20:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

This also happened for the song article I started for "Who Are The Brain Police"Pustelnik (talk) 00:10, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced information

If you can provide citations proving that "Carnival of Light" was inspired by "Monster Magnet" and that "Help, I'm a Rock" was a parody of "I Am a Rock," add the info back into the article. If the only sources you can find are grasping-at-straws "it might have been this way" essays and articles just leave it out of the article. It doesn't make it look any better and adds unnecessary text. As these statements previously stood, they were pretty much Original research. (Ibaranoff24 21:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC))

Parody Of Other 50s and 60s Albums?

Is it worth mentioning in this article that considerable parts of this album are a parody to the 50s and 60s music scene? It would put the big differences in genre/music type between tracks into some sort of context.

For example:

    The start of 'Hungry Freaks, Daddy' sounds considerably like 'I Can't Get No Satisfaction' by 'The Rolling Stones'.
    'Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder' is an example of classic late 50s Doo Wop.
    'I Ain't Got No Heart' sounds very much like the British band 'Cream', possibly the song 'We're Going Wrong'?

There are probably many more examples throughout this album. But I thought it might be worth mentioning as it seems to be such a large part of this album.

Mohoyt 11:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I think this would qualify as original research, which it not allowed on Wiki. Also, I don't agree with your examples, but if someone renowned has written on this (thereby constituting a reliable source), it can be considered. Otherwise, I am afraid it cannot. Cheers! --HJensen, talk 15:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Experimental

Experimental Rock??? - I strongly object to the use of this term in describing Zappa's music because I think Zappa himself would object. The word "experimental" implies that it was created on the spot as an experiment and reaches the public in something less than a perfected form. However, aside from his use of Jazz like solo improvisations, Zappa carefully worked out all the aspects of his music in advance, He knew exactly what he was doing through extensive rehearsals and experimentation BEFORE presenting his music to the public.

Zappa follows in the tradition of his favorite composer Edgard Varese, who got very upset when critics called his music "experimental." Varese was quoted as saying "I do all my experimenting BEFORE I make music. Afterward, it is the LISTENER who must experiment." --Zoni4316 (talk) 13:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

While I don't like the term "experimental rock," and agree that Zappa himself would probably object to it as well, the term doesn't imply what you state here in terms of being experimentally improvised. As stated in the article on the genre, "experimental rock or avant-garde rock is a type of music based on rock which experiments with the basic elements of the genre, and/or which pushes the boundaries of common composition and performance technique." So, while I personally dislike the term, it's not totally inaccurate when applied to Zappa's music when viewed in this light.--AE Logan (talk) 00:01, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Did other people call Zappa experimental? Did Zappa write the dictionary? Does the article currently describe Zappa's point of view? Hyacinth (talk) 04:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Gene Estes

Why does "Gene Estes" redirect to thsi page. He was a session musician who played on Freak Out!, but also on many other recording including The Monkees. I 'd suggest he has his own article or no re-driect at all.--Design (talk) 05:00, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Van Dyke Parks?

according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Dyke_Parks#Initial_performances_and_compositions Parks was a session player for Freak Out!

confirmation and inclusion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1868:4:4:9F7:2C86:2241:FF78 (talk) 13:09, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Freak Out!/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Is it worth mentioning in this article that considerable parts of this album are a parody to the 50s and 60s music scene?

It would put the big differences in genre/music type between tracks into some sort of context.

For example:

    The start of 'Hungry Freaks, Daddy' sounds considerably like 'I Can't Get No Satisfaction' by 'The Rolling Stones'.
    'Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder' is an example of classic late 50s Doo Wop.
    'I Ain't Got No Heart' sounds very much like the British band 'Cream', possibly the song 'We're Going Wrong'?

There are probably many more examples throughout this album. But I thought it might be worth mentioning as it seems to be such a large part of this album.

Mohoyt 11:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 11:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 14:49, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

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Jeannie Vassoir/Suzie Creamcheese/Pamela Zarubica

In the "Personnel" section, under "The Mothers'Auxiliary" heading, "Jeannie Vassoir" links to "Frank Zappa," which article makes no mention of Jeannie Vassoir and passing mention of "Pamela Zarubica." This link explains the mishegas quite plausibly and rationally, but is, unfortunately on the face of it, not a reliable source. I'd like to use it anyway! Thoughts, please, and let's settle it after the article's day in the sun as a Featured Article. Tapered (talk) 12:25, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

I removed the extra "|" from the link in your message. Perhaps there's something more reliable in this source? - DVdm (talk) 12:54, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
@DVdm: Doubt it, actually. That's a scholarly tome, and this is one credit from the earliest album concerning a historically obscure person of limited importance—of no musical importance a'tall. I think it's this link or nichts. Tapered (talk) 08:44, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
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