Talk:Frederick August Wenderoth

A fact from Frederick August Wenderoth appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 23 January 2014 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Frederick August Wenderoth and Charles Christian Nahl often painted together, including the large scale gold rush scene Miners in the Sierras (pictured)?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2014/January. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Frederick August Wenderoth.

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Comments[edit]

Hi, don't know how this article got on my watchlist but I suspect it must be a red-link I watched at some point with the intention of starting a page. I might have come across it while reading about the Brothers Grimm or maybe about gold mining for a couple of articles I've written. Anyway, a few comments: right now the only source being used is Driesbach, and as far as I can tell only one version (which is not really relevant). I've tagged it such for now because more sources need to be found. The is reason is this: the German article, from which this is translated, in my opinion is quite close to the source - I haven't had time to delve into it too carefully, but possibly too close. The two options would to stop translating from the German article and to paraphrase Driesbach to a greater degree and to find more sources so as to add more info and not to rely entirely on Driesbach. I might get a chance to help if my time isn't too tied up - but not immediately. I meant to post this last night and didn't get to it - apologies for that. Victoria (tk) 20:41, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Adding - here's Nahl's page from Palmquist, [1]. Same book should have an entry for Wenderoth, but quite a lot here that can be used. Let me know if it's not visible. Victoria (tk) 20:58, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Example

From the article:

At the end of 1851 the friends moved to Sacramento, where together they established a studio, producing woodcuts and lithographs.

From Driesbach:

The end of 1851 found Wenderoth and Charles Christian Nahl in Sacramento, where they established themselves as specialists in portraiture, lithographs and wood engraving.

I found a few others that were similar to the source but think better now through the process of rewriting, etc. Victoria (tk) 21:44, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits[edit]

I did the following:

Rewrote much of the text so that the verbatim text that came from the 2009 .de page is now gone.
Developed some of the points, though there's still quite a bit more to be developed.
Resectioned and reorganized
Kept the infobox but moved the image (the painting of the miners) to the appropriate section. Since he and Nahl were photographers I suspect that with some searching we might find a photo of Wenderoth to add to the infobox.
These photographs are interesting too, because not only was he photographing miners in the Sierras in the 1850s, he was coloring the photographs. I'd like to dig to find out more about these and will probably upload when there's space in the article to support them.
Also, this shows a good bibliography with many more sources that can be searched for.

Sorry for getting a little carried away. It's a really interesting page! Victoria (tk) 02:58, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is excellent, in terms of expertise, avoiding plagiarism and language! Happy digging! Until we find an image of him, I used as lead image one which he did alone, - illustrating his work better than the joint venture ;) - I would like to present him for DYK, that needs to be done soon. I ~~will nominate~~ nominated today because I won't have much time over the weekend, but you can always go there and ask to wait until you developed more. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:27, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is this by "our" Wenderoth? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:32, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Here's another one - more info, but how to get it to the commons? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:40, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gerda - it's early in the morning for me and I have to work, so will check back later. A number of his photographs exist on various museum sites, and I'll upload. First though there's more to read, i.e. this, and another I lost when closed a window by mistake and now have to search for again, and expand the photography section. He developed various innovative photographic techniques, i.e, photo-zincography, while in business in Philadelphia and I believe in South Carolina. I think it's best to get the text in place first and then decide which photographs to show. And then upload. Back later. Victoria (tk) 12:50, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good news, no rush. If possible I would like to show the early drawing with a Kassel landmark (or something similar), as an example of his early work, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:54, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think this can grow significantly and we'll might be able to add another gallery. I'll quickly sketch out the lead a bit more now. Victoria (tk) 13:01, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Great! I found another glimpse on the Miners, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:04, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Complicated half-brother, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:27, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say! That might work best on the brother's page (or even on Nahl's page). I wonder how Laura fit into all this? When I'm back after work, I'll sort all these links here on the talkpage so we know what's what. If I get to it tonight will try to finish the South Carolina section. Victoria (tk) 17:42, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good work!!! Well done. Hafspajen (talk) 14:00, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting subject. Victoria (tk) 17:42, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've finally run out of steam for now, but have filled in some gaps. Victoria (tk) 00:54, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for what you put in, powerful additions,much more insight in his achievements! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:10, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well done to all. Ceoil (talk) 12:42, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Little Miss San Francisco[edit]

It's been bothering me that the file links for most of the these images are dead and so we have no way to verify dates, and attributions, etc. I've finally found that File:Nahl-Wenderoth, Little Miss San Francisco.jpg is held here and the museum dates the painting to 1853, when Wenderoth was traveling to the South Seas and Australia, and the museum attributes solely to Nahl, so I've removed it, [2]. The file should be renamed and the appropriate links supplied and I think the other images should be checked. Victoria (tk) 17:02, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are the expert. I was a bit surprised that you removed the information on size and technique from image captions, while on another artist article I watch they were just added. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda the mistake is to assume that any of are experts. We follow sources. I can't find sources giving me sizes or information about these paintings, that's why I removed the one that is clearly wrong based on a reliable source and another reliable source that tells us Wenderoth wasn't in America or San Francisco when that painting was painted. It should be changed. I no longer have a Commons account after username change, so perhaps you or someone else can try to find links that verify the information we need. The other article you link to has source information for the images. This one doesn't. These should have been checked earlier and I'm not the only person working this page. Victoria (tk) 17:24, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Final comments before unwatching[edit]

A few final comments before unwatching this page. I work on pages that interest me - and this did, but it needed, and still does, a lot of clean up. I don't work on pages to perpetuate a dispute or to make a point. Yet I see that my work here was used as just that, [3] as mentioned on Carcharoth's page - which I resent. Beyond that, I dislike seeing this type of conversation that should take place here on the talk and not on another user page. So to explain: Carcharoth's comment here about "prime territory" is correct in regards to articles about art where it's preferable to show the artist's work on the page. I didn't complain when the infobox was added, but I explained on the talk above why I moved the image. Another image was then added, which I thought was problematic but I didn't say anything. The problem with having File:Frederick August Wenderoth, A Winner.jpg in the infobox (aside from not having information about this painting) is that it's confusing. Is this a portrait of the article subject with his horses? Or is the subject of the article a horse and is this a portrait of that horse. Still, I didn't complain. When it was moved, and rightfully so, I tried to move here with an edit summary of "test". The problem is that with the infobox falling into that section, it causes text squash. So I moved it to the gallery. In the meantime, I've managed to spend some time researching one of the images and have commented about its removal above. I don't wish to be involved with this anymore. I really don't even wish to be involved with Wikipedia anymore and I do wish this kind of stuff wouldn't keep happening. Many apologies for the rant, but there you go. I had downloaded one of the lithographs of the miners linked above with the intention of uploading, but I've decided to unwatch instead. Victoria (tk) 18:15, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I started this page because it was requested. You came and helped, I liked it and said so, to you and to Carcharoth. I am impressed with what you added and didn't question it, right? When you moved the Miners to context, it made sense, I just looked for a different lead image. When you moved the miners back I didn't even ask why. I promised a stub, we got much more, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:26, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Who is we? The encyclopia, I assume? I didn't move the miners, I moved the little girl with every intention of replacing, which I've now done. I would very much prefer that in the future discussion takes place, here, on this talk page and not elsewhere. I makes me much more inclined to work here rather than not, in particular so that all the relevant links are in one place rather than scattered about on various user talkpages. Since I had the lithograph downloaded to my computer, I've now finished the uploading process and added to the article. Thanks. Victoria (tk) 14:15, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The German Wikipedia has this picture as:[edit]

Hafspajen (talk) 20:47, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The German Wikipedia is not a reliable source. According the museum that hold the painting, it was painted by Nahls. Explanation with links above and also in edit summaries. Victoria (tk) 14:15, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]