Talk:Gary Roberts (footballer, born 1987)

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Good articleGary Roberts (footballer, born 1987) has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 20, 2011Good article nomineeListed

GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Gary Roberts (footballer born 1987)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Review[edit]

Reviewer: Aircorn (talk • contribs • count) 08:52, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

I see getting this article through the GA process as a collaborative effort and everything in the comments is negotiable to some extent. Also not every comment falls strictly under the criteria, with many containing questions or suggestions to improve the article. Please leave any questions or responses under the relevant comment. Cheers AIRcorn (talk) 12:21, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, cheers, have done so.--EchetusXe 13:22, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Review[edit]

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    Overall pretty good. Unsure why some of the quotes are italicised. Blockquotes dominate the personal life section. Would be nice to work a few of the short isolated sentences into paragraphs. More under comments.
I have now removed the italics from the quotes and revamped the personal life section.--EchetusXe 13:22, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    Will check this in more detail later on my second read through.
  2. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    This is good.
  3. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
    In the lead it says "he has good vision and is a talented distributor of the ball" without any attribution. Was a little bit uncomfortable with the amount of space given to his disciplinary problems, but reading the rest it may be warranted.
No, you're right. Is much better without the mention of discipline.--EchetusXe 13:22, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The good vision and is a talented distributor part still needs attribution. We should not really say this with Wikipedias voice. AIRcorn (talk) 09:56, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
    Looks like it is your article.
  2. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    Nice
  3. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

Comments[edit]

  • However he has poor discipline, and regularly finds himself in the referee's notebook. Possible a bit too in-house. Maybe it could be made clear what in the referee's notebook means.
    • Yeah, I thought that when I wrote it; I have now changed it to ...and has picked up many bookings over the course of his career.
  • Roberts signed as a professional with Dario Gradi's Crewe Alexandra in 2004 Noticed this with another review. Is it common in England to refer to a team as belonging to the manager? It doesn't seem right to me. Would be good to mention the division or tier that Crewe is in. Also a "from Micky Adams' Port Vale" further down.
    • It is fairly common to encounter this in the media. It can be said that the team itself belongs to the manager, not the club but the eleven players he names on the team sheet. A manager usually has a lot of room to bring players in and out and usually has them playing in his own managerial style e.g. big and physical or neat and organized or free-flowing and creative etc. So "Micky Adam's Port Vale" was very different to "Jim Gannon's Port Vale". Also, with Crewe, Dario Gradi was in charge for 24 years, so it definitely was 'his team'. As for the team's division, on the line below the one you pointed out it says that he made 'his First Division debut'.
      • My original thought when reading it was something along the lines of Abramovich's Chelsea. Maybe a little ambigous to some but not a big deal. AIRcorn (talk) 12:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Roberts became a key player in Crewe's bid for promotion Promotion to what?
    • Good job you spotted this, I failed to mention the club were relegated into League One at the end of the 2005–06 season.
  • He also received the first red card of his professional career What was the card for?
    • Again, I'm glad you pointed this out. The BBC didn't go into detail, but I found this match report, which does go into detail. I added this sentence: He was dismissed for violent conduct after a challenge on Louis Carey, though this was seen as a 'harsh' and 'strange' decision by the referee. As the report comes from the website of the opposing team, it would appear to be an unbiased account.
      • If the seen as harsh and strange is retained it should be attributed to Adam Baker somehow. Maybe even something linking him to the opposition to give it more weight.
  • He left without an offer of a contract, but was offered another trial with League Two side Rotherham United, where he masterminded a reserves victory over Huddersfield Town Masterminded?
    • lol, I think that was there I found it. I have dug up a couple of sources that said he played the game, so I will change that now.
  • On 12 November, Roberts was offered a contract with the Millers. Manager Ronnie Moore commented: "He's only 22 but has real talent and would be a great asset. His attitude is first class and he deserves a second chance." Who are "the Millers" and why the italics?
    • Should be in quotation marks, Rotherham United's official nickname is the Millers, as you see their website is themillers.co.uk.
  • Later in the month Roberts signed a one month contract with a view to extend it until the end of the season.[29] The following month the option to extend Roberts' Rotherham deal until the end of the 2009–10 season was taken. Isn't the first sentence outdated by the second.
    • Yes, I have shortened the first sentence.
  • In his fifth appearance for Rotherham he scored his first goal for the club in spectacular fashion, in the 4–2 win over Yorkshire rivals Bradford City, scoring a free kick from fifty yards out, a goal which he followed up with his trademark "Swan" celebration. Spectacular is a little bit WP:PEACOCK. Nothing in the reference about the "swan" celebration.
    • The Swan thing was there when I found the article. I will remove it and replace 'spectacular' with 'sensational', as that is how the BBC report describes it. Now reads: In his fifth appearance for Rotherham, a 4–2 win over Yorkshire rivals Bradford City, he scored his first goal for the club in 'sensational' fashion by finding the net with a free kick from fifty yards out.
  • The club did not divulge what the final breach was; though his manager was "bitterly disappointed", the player was "full of remorse", his teammates were not "too sorry to see him go" Should there be an "and" after the last comma.
    • Yes, corrected now.
  • as Adams tested Roberts' ability to stay away from his demons rather than his footballing ability. I think there is an error here. It reads like he is also testing his ability to stay away from his footballing ability. Ability is mentioned twice in close succession too.
    • Changed that to He joined the team on their July pre-season trip to Ireland, as Adams, already convinced of the player's talents, wanted to test Roberts' ability to stay away from his off-the-field demons.
  • As early as September talks began to extend his contract,Talks can't extend contracts
    • Changed that to As early as September he entered negotiations with the club to extend his contract
  • His teammates also supported him, and celebrated goals with Roberts' celebration style during his absence; This reads a little awkwardly, maybe remove the "and" as the celebration style is part of the way they are supporting him. I assume this is the Swan celebration mentioned earlier. If it is a description of what it is would be nice.
    • Changed that to His teammates also showed their support for him by celebrating goals with Roberts' celebration style during his absence. The celebration isn't a major thing, more of a one off that happened twice!
  • Roberts has played for England at under-16,[56] under-17, under-18,[57] and England under-19 levels.[8] England is mentioned twice.
    • Corrected. Just another little thing I failed to notice.
  • The team were knocked at the semi-final stage by a Cesc Fàbregas penalty for Spain. Knocked out
    • Eliminated? Eliminated.
  • He played for the England under-18s in a goalless draw with Norway at Vale Park on 10 June 2005. Reference?
    • Found one.
  • All three other teams in their group had first had to go through the "First" qualification stage. Had first had to? Is this needed?
    • Is somewhat superfluous. Removed.
  • Personal life. Bit dominated by quotes. They are all from the one source too.
    • Revamped section.
  • Unable to handle peer pressure, Roberts drink problems soon escalated This comes across a bit like editorialising.
    • Revamped section.

I am happy with the changes. Only the attribution in the lead was missed. The personal life section is still possibly a bit too much about his drinking and gambling. Would be nice to balance it out with more info on his son/girlfriend, other hobbies/sports etc. Not sure it enters WP:UNDUE territory as I am not an expert on this subject and it does seem to be a big part of his life. If you have looked for other personal life info and it is not available then we will leave it as it is. I just want to spot check a few more references (sorry overloaded myself recently with peer reviews, good articles, rfcs all coming up at once, but will get to it within the next few days) and I think this is close to a pass. AIRcorn (talk) 12:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Added the lead citation. Well, as you can see he has just been suspended by Port Vale for again missing training sessions, and so I think we can all work out what he was doing on Saturday night ('bitterly disappointed' rears its head for a second time in the article). Sadly I don't think he has found anything else to occupy his mind. I don't want to delve into his relationships, as stated in the article his girlfriend left him in May 2009, so probably best left unsaid, not that there are any sources that go into any detail beyond his drinking. If you ever seen The Lost Weekend then that is probably what his life is like when football is taken out of the equation.--EchetusXe 16:40, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough about the personal life. In the lead I was thinking something more along the line of "Players and managers have praised Roberts vision and he has been described as a talented distributor of the ball". Just so it doesn't sound like we are saying it. A few points about some references below too. AIRcorn (talk) 07:30, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I get you, fixed that.--EchetusXe 07:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reference Check[edit]

  • He's only 22 but has real talent and would be a great asset. His attitude is first class and he deserves a second chance. This is presented as a single quote, but it only presents parts of the quote from this source.[1] It should either have ellipsis to indicate words are missing or be rewritten in a non-quote form. It could also be presented as two separate quotes.
    • Yes, that strange, fixed it.
  • The club did not divulge what the final breach was; though his manager was "bitterly disappointed", the player was "full of remorse", and his teammates were not "too sorry to see him go" The manager is speaking for everyone so it would be more accurate coming from his mouth. i.e "the "bitterly disappointed" manager said that while the player was "full of remorse" his teammates would not be "too sorry to see him go"
    • Good turn of phrase, I have used it in the article

Passed. Well Done. AIRcorn (talk) 09:14, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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