Talk:Georgy Voronoy

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Mathematics Mid‑priority

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Ethnicity[edit]

I have used Google to check whether he is commonly described as Russian or Ukrainian. Scolar: [1] gives 5 references all referencing Voronoy as Russian, [2] gives 4 references, neither of them referring Voronoy as Ukrainian but reserving the title for his pupil Kovalenko. [3] gives 1340 hits, [4] gives 21 hit. Obviously he is regarded as Russian mathematician since he was a part of Russian mathematical school Alex Bakharev (talk) 06:48, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It still would have been nice if you (or anybody else) added the Ukrainian Cyrillic to the article since he was obviously born there (I just did it myself). Why did this not happen? — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 01:31, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He was ukrainian as nation and russian (empire) as civil. Ukraine was a state made by commies and never being before 1917 188.134.46.114 (talk) 00:44, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Transliteration is not about thnicity. If an Armenian person grows up in Turkey and became famous in France, he should have French translit, not Turkish or Armenian, and definitely not both. This is explicitly against WP:UEIA, the only rule we have on the subject. In this case, you need to a google search for the Ukrainian spelling of the name. If this is uncommon, there is no need for its inclusion. Mhym (talk) 02:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Of course everybody famous in Ukraine is known be her/his Ukrainian name. The language does get used... It's not a dead language like Latin. Георгій Вороний gets 160.000 google hits; Георгий Вороной 630.000.

WP:UEIA states:"When the native name is written in a non-Latin alphabet this representation should be included along with Latin alphabet transliteration." And Mr. Voronoy was born in a region where the non-Latin Ukrainian alphabet was/is used hence the non-Latin Ukrainian alphabet should have be included. Current Russia might be the successor of Imperial Russia but that does not make the Ukrainian alphabet a post-Soviet (1991) "invention"; it was also used in Imperial Russia.

I can not help to think that some editors think there is no difference between the Russian and Ukrainian alphabet. I do not blame everybody who does not know that difference, but articles about Ukrainians (or people born in Ukraine) without the Ukrainian Cyrillic name in it are simply not up to WP:UEIA standards. As a rule I do not care about somebody's ethnicity, I consider everybody born in Ukraine a Ukrainian. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 02:45, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He was born in the Russian Empire, not Ukraine. It became Ukraine only much later. As that region of the world has been home to both ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians, I don't think we can say without reliable sources what his ethnicity was, only his nationality, and that nation was the Russian Empire. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:01, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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MOS:FORLANG[edit]

MOS:FORLANG states (emphasis added) "If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single foreign language equivalent name can be included in the lead sentence, usually in parentheses." Currently we have two, Russian and Ukrainian. Omnipaedista has been trying to add a third equivalent name, the Latin transliteration of the Ukrainian name (presumably under the modern standardized transliteration system and not any of several earlier transliteration systems that have also been used). Can we please either (1) determine which Cyrillic and Latin forms of his name he actually used in life, and include only those in the lead, with others mentioned if at all elsewhere, or (2) if there are still too many, just say something like "transliterated variously" and elaborate later? I am trying to avoid a situation where a reader on a mobile device has to scroll through line after line of extraneous information before getting to the actual meaningful part of the first sentence, "a mathematician noted for defining the Voronoi diagram". My strong suspicion is that as a citizen of the Russian empire (only) he would not have used the Ukrainian forms, and that they are anachronisms that have been added later out of nationalism and out of the happenstance that his birthplace is now in Ukraine, but I would be happy to be proven incorrect on this. For that matter, do we have evidence that he ever used the transliteration "Georgy Voronoy"? The one publication we link to lists his name (in German although the paper itself is in French) as "G. Voronoï". —David Eppstein (talk) 05:54, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ukrainian would be redundant in the lead, because Voronoy was a Russian subject throughout his life. Someone added it on the premise that Voronoy was ethnically Ukrainian (this is common practice in Wikipedia). I relocated it to the infobox. --Omnipaedista (talk) 06:07, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good enough. Thanks. I don't think we want to remove it altogether, since he is apparently now counted as Ukrainian by the Ukrainian mathematicians. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:08, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]