Talk:Grigor Parlichev

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2020

Please delete reference No. 1 since it is either a dead url or a fake url. Please delete reference no. 2. since it only lists 3 pages this reference refers two which are ambiguous to the claim that Gligor Prlichev is Bulgarian. Either provide quotes from Reference no. 2 or delete it completely as malicious. Finally remove from text body, Gligor Prlichev is a Bulgarian writer and translator, from the first sentence, since both Reference no. 1 and no. 2 seem malicious and misleading. He was neither born in Bulgaria, nor did he die in Bulgaria. This is a highly contencious issue between Macedonian and Bulgarian Historiographies and Wikipedia in English should refrain from taking sides. He also wrote in Macedonian and Greek thus the claim that he is Bulgarian writer and translator is false. There is an ongoing dispute between both countries about characters from their common history. Otherwise review both references and provide credible sources for your claim. 89.205.81.73 (talk) 12:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Neither 1 or 2 are "malicious" just because you can't access them. It is up to you to provide sources showing that he is Macedonian. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 14:45, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 December 2020

Please delete reference No. 1 since it is irrelevant. If you wish to keep source No.1 then quote p. 189-190, "It is probable that, if Parlichev had been born a generation earlier, he would have remained an active propagandizer of Greek culture rather than simply retaining an emotional attachment to Ancient Greek poetry; yet if he had been born two generations later, he might have become a Macedonian nationalist. Today Bulgarians consider Parlichev to be a Bulgarian and Macedonians consider him to be a Macedonian, while some Greeks still consider him to be a Greek poet." which is the main argument of the author about Prlichev. See here https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7b3d/52535bc699eebdb5d5307799fc2f74a2b8d4.pdf?_ga=2.266054159.1429400818.1608153622-233438156.1608153622

Thus DELETE "Bulgarian writer and translator" from the article since it constitutes bias.

Remove Reference no. 2 as it is false. No mentions About Grigor Prlichev on pp. 61; 89; 124 as in the footnote. The only mention of Prlichev is on pp. 22-23. See here https://pure.uva.nl/ws/files/3799027/42086_Sampimon.pdf and make a simple search or read carefully.

Remove reference no. 3 since it is biased as it is published by Bulgarian Academy of Sciences which is the main proliferator of false history.

All 3 References noseem malicious and misleading. He was neither born in Bulgaria, nor did he die in Bulgaria. This is a highly contentious issue between Macedonian and Bulgarian Historiographies and Wikipedia in English should refrain from bias. He also wrote in Macedonian and Greek thus the claim that he is Bulgarian writer and translator is false. There is an ongoing dispute between Macedonia and Bulgaria about characters from their common history. 89.205.81.73 (talk) 22:08, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

In Reference #1 at page 189 it's clearly stated: "In 1860 he won the Greek national poetry prize as ‘a pro-Greek Bulgarian’ under the name Grigorios Stavridis". Regarding adding the "It is probable that...", it's irrelevant (if he was born 22 centuries ago, he would have been a Roman, and if he was born a woman, she whould have not written anything...). Can you show us what exactly is written on pages 61; 89; 124 from source #2? Source #3 quotes his autobiography and covers the claim "Although he thought of himself as a Bulgarian". These changes should not be applied. --StanProg (talk) 17:18, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

The correct pages in ref. 2 which identify Parlichev as bulgarian are 23 and 83. At least in the pdf version which was provided above. 212.39.89.52 (talk) 22:03, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Reference #1 'a pro-Greek Bulgarian' is clearly the author's interpretation how the Greeks treated him at the time, and should not receive more credence than the conclusion of the author, which is given in the next paragraph. This is how the author concludes the chapter on Parlichev and this is how sane readers, read what he is trying to convey. Here is the quote: It is probable that, if Parlichev had been born a generation earlier, he would have remained an active propagandizer of Greek culture rather than simply retaining an emotional attachment to Ancient Greek poetry; yet if he had been born two generations later, he might have become a Macedonian nationalist. Today Bulgarians consider Parlichev to be a Bulgarian and Macedonians consider him to be a Macedonian, while some Greeks still consider him to be a Greek poet." which is the main argument of the author about Prlichev. See here https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7b3d/52535bc699eebdb5d5307799fc2f74a2b8d4.pdf?_ga=2.266054159.1429400818.1608153622-233438156.1608153622

As for the bogus quotes Reference No. 2 from Becoming Bulgarian: the articulation of Bulgarian identity in the nineteenth century in its international context: an intellectual history, Janette Sampimon, Pegasus, 2006, ISBN 9061433118, pp. 61; 89; 124. I already provided the link in my previous post. Here it is again https://pure.uva.nl/ws/files/3799027/42086_Sampimon.pdf Scroll down to the listed pages and see for yourself. It is bogus. The only mention of Parlichev in this reference is on p. 23 and it is the following: A separate Macedonian public sphere was only created from the 1860s onwards and especially after a Bulgarian state had been formed (an autonomous princedom in 1878, and an independent state in 1908) and the Macedonian territories remained in the Ottoman Empire. Even then, while some Macedonian intellectuals dedicated themselves to the development of a Macedonian identity, others, like Grigor Părličev, sought to join the Bulgarian cultural world.

This request for edit to semi-protected edit should be approved and changes should go ahead to remove bias. Links to footnotes no. 1 and 2 should be updated as provided here. 89.205.81.73 (talk) 12:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Dear IP, please stop spamming around. There is a separate section about the identification of Parlichev, confirming you are pushing here simply a biased POV. Jingiby (talk) 18:31, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Dear Jingiby (talk) please stop falsifying ethic-Macedonian historiography, as evident from your activity and talk page. The issue of identification is not my point, but the issue of using 2 bogus references (which seem fictitious) to base a false claim that Grigor Prlichev is Bulgarian. (89.205.81.73 (talk) 10:52, 26 December 2020 (UTC))

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. This is obviously a contested topic (as I can see from previous requests, and the following section) so it would require consensus amongst the concerned editors before one of them implements it. Also, note about policy: Wikipedia is based on neutral and reliable sources, not your own opinion of what is "non-sense" and what is not. Especially in the case of ethnicities/nationalities (see MOS:ETHNICITY, we should be cautious and not go ahead with WP:OR and WP:PAs such as engaged in by the IP a.k.a. Dim0ski. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 15:35, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Please list or advise how to identify "concerned editors" for me to go ahead and obtain a consensus and ask them to implement it. Please clarify how consensus is usually obtained. The editors who have protected this page seem to have a Bulgarian national bias. It seems to me that arbitration might be more appropriate. 89.205.81.73 (talk) 11:30, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Bulgarian writter? Nonsense.

The poet wrote in Macedonian language and you history-denying Bulgarians will claim him as Bulgarian? Born in Macedonia, died in Macedonia. Dim0ski (talk) 16:51, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

North Macedonia is an independent state since 1991 and Macedonian was codified in 1945. Jingiby (talk) 17:10, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Bulgarian was codified in 1878. Prlichev could not have written in Bulgarian since this was a newly codified language and quite a different norm from his Ohrid tongue, which he used in his writing until his death in 1893. Read your history. 89.205.81.73 (talk) 11:41, 31 January 2021 (UTC)