Talk:Halawet el Jibn

I think it is inappropriate to label the dish as distinctly 'Syrian', as if it belongs solely to the people of the Syrian Republic. It is more accurate to describe the dish as 'Levantine', acknowledging its origins in Syrian cities if supported by references. This accommodates for the fact that the people of Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq etc. are significant producers and consumers of this good and may even ascribe this dish to their own cuisines. This is common practice for a number of Middle Eastern dishes, for example, tabbouleh and kibbeh. Whilst it would be inappropriate and inaccurate to label tabbouleh as a salad that belongs solely to Lebanon (as if it is only constructed inside the borders of the less than century old Lebanese republic) is foolish, the same applies here. Syria, as a nation, was a colonial creation of the 20th century, and to ascribe to it foods is ignorant of Levantine and wider Arab history, as well as the cultural bonds that tie the countries of the Levant together. However, it is not inaccurate to ascribe Halawet el Jibn to a certain town, city, or region, whilst respecting its immense popularity and depth of presence by accurately conveying it as belonging to the entire Levant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aljalkh (talk • contribs) 16:20, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Origins of dessert Arab/Levantine as opposed to Syrian

Note the following excerpt from The National:

"Two years ago, I found myself shivering in the chiller room of Al Samadi Baklava factory, which has produced pastries that have fattened me up over the years from our neighbourhood baklava store. The factory manager, a stout man with the imposing proportions of a retired football player and the intimidating charm of a senile grandfather, stretched out his plump palm to unveil a timid white roll. Like a doting fan and granddaughter, I obediently indulged. The shy roll dissolved in my mouth with a fleeting smoothness that was sweet, creamy and delicate all at the same time. If an angel were to flutter near your lips, the cool touch of halawat al jibn is what that flutter would feel like.

Halawat al jibn is an Arab dessert that uses dough made out of cheese (typically akkawi) and semolina. The cheese dough is rolled out, spooned over with thick Arabian clotted cream (ashta) and twirled up like milky white cigars that are drizzled with sugar syrup and rose water. For the final seal of perfection, the lads at the baklava store will gently tap a spoon of ground pistachios over the sweet cheese bundles. Depending on the day, their moods and the planetary patterns that may be, one of the lads might even offer to dot the halawat with candied rose petals as a final exquisite garnish.

Some recipes for this dessert give credit to Homs in Syria as the birthplace of halawat al jibn. Others, including one by the famous food writer Anissa Helou, point to northern Lebanon. Food history aside, the thing that is selfishly important to know is that many a baklava shop might carry halawat al jibn, but they will not be displayed alongside the ostentatious trays filled with syrupy baklava. It is up to you to ask. So when you next visit a baklava store, make sure you point to the fridge and beg the lads to bring the angels out."

• • Note that the dessert is labelled 'Arab'.
  • Note that there is legitimate dispute as to the origin of the sweet, and, for that reason, it displays greater historical objectivity to point readers to the region and peoples that are shown to have developed and produced this dessert.

http://www.thenational.ae/lifestyle/food/food-obsession-halawat-al-jibn

Aljalkh (talk) 03:17, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

About this: "one by the famous food writer Anissa Helou, point to northern Lebanon." I checked the source of this, and the statement is not true. Anissa Helou in fact wrote in the book Levant: "It is a speciality of the city of Homs ... whenever I drove past it on the way to Lebanon from Aleppo I would stop at a sweet-maker just outside the city to buy halawet el-jebn for my mother. Fortunately, there is also a sweet-maker in Tripoli in northern Lebanon, Halawiyat el-Tom, that specialises in halawet el-jebn and makes an excellent version." This doesn't qualify as a "legitimate dispute as to the origin of the sweet", sorry. There are also many other sources giving Hama as the city of origin. Furthermore, the introduction to the article has already been changed to call it a "Levantine Arabic dessert", rather than a "Syrian dessert", which the original complaint was about, so I'm removing the POV template. --IamNotU (talk) 18:29, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Removal of references undone

I have reverted this edit: [1], which removed six of the seven citations in the article. The references are from the Middle East Monitor, Al-Ittihad, Asharq Al-Awsat, The New York Times, and The Express Tribune, all of which are well-established notable news outlets, and from a story by a professional journalist ([2]) from the Culinary Backstreets site ([3]), which appears to be a reliable source for the information it supports, i.e. that the dish has spread to other countries. While there may be questions about how best to present the information, in keeping with WP:NPOV, wholesale deletion is not the right approach.

No citations were given to support that there are many more sources that claim it to be from other countries, nor for the new statement in the article that replaced the removed material: Its specific origin is not clear, though it is known to be originated in Syria. --IamNotU (talk) 12:13, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Translation of Halawet el Jibn

Last year, I added the translation "sweet cheese" to the first sentence: "Halawet el-jibn (Arabic: حلاوة الجبن / Ḥalāwat al-jibn) (sweet cheese)". Later that year it was changed to "cheese confection", in this edit: [4], with the explanation: the translation is incorrect. The proper translation is cheese sweet (as in a sweet made from cheese), as opposed to sweet cheese (which would be جبنة حلوة). Cheese confection is the closest correct translation I could come up with. That sounded ok to me. Today it was changed back again to "sweet cheese" by Shaimosmos - what is the reason? Do you think "sweet cheese" is more accurate? Isn't halawet here used as a noun, "a sweet" (i.e., a dessert, confection, or candy) rather than an adjective, "sweet" (sweet-tasting)? Doesn't "el" here indicate a posessive? In other words, a literal translation is more like "sweet/confection (made) of cheese"? If so, then "cheese sweet" or "cheese confection" would be more accurate than "sweet cheese" in English.

The most common translation I've seen in a Google search is "sweet cheese rolls", and I'd suggest using that, but it's not a literal translation. Do we need to include a literal translation as well? Maybe something like: (Arabic: حلاوة الجبن, lit. 'sweet of cheese', sweet cheese rolls) - ? --IamNotU (talk) 12:40, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

I think Halawet el Jibn is fine. the names is not translatable. for example you don't translate Pizza form Italian, Hamburger, Cola or other names of food even names of people. the right thing is to use the Pronounced name "Halawet el Jibn" as in Arabic and explain the orgin of the word in arabic. it is true "cheese Sweet" or "a sweet of the chesse", "cheese sweet" are better translation but I prefer as it is "Halawet el Jibn" Mahmoud2013 (talk) 21:50, 18 May 2020 (UTC)