Talk:Halloumi

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Halloumi A cheese dedicated to Venus (Aphrodite)[edit]

The main subject of the origin of halloumi is the shape of the originial Halloumi.

The original shape is the shape of the female genetical and sexual organs (vegina) and is dedicated to The Goddess of Love Aphrodite. As for the name the world Halloumi is not a Greek word but we have to separate ancient Cyprus language from the Greek. The Cypriots that time were very closed in customs and religions with the today Syria and south Turkey since they were Finix. Venus was also a goddess of Finix as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyflix (talk • contribs) 09:09, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Turkish name of Halloumi[edit]

I believe that the turkish name of Halloumi should appear in the lede- first sentence. As far as I know, all documents cite Cyprus as the place of origin. The Republic of Cyprus, a bi-communal state, has two official languages, greek and turkish. Cinadon36 (talk) 14:05, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The common name in English is halloumi or haloumi; neither "challoumi" nor "hellim" are recognized English words, per Oxford English Dictionary, other dictionaries and reliable sources, and Google Books search. Foreign-language equivalents may be listed if the subject is "closely associated" with the language, but should not be bolded, per MOS:FORLANG. Halloumi is also closely associated with Arab countries of the Levant, and with Cypriot Arabic, which was a common language in the past and the basis of the name. Prior to extensive edit warring starting in late 2015, the article had the English name in bold, followed by Greek, Turkish, and Arabic equivalents, which was fairly stable going back more than ten years. MOS:FORLANG specifies only one foreign equivalent should be used, but in practice there are often more than one - I support having all three, or none at all. Emphasizing or excluding one is not in line with WP:NPOV.
Like most foods it's likely a product of an evolutionary process in the greater region, where migration was common, with no identifiable, single point of origin. Assigning it a modern-day ethnic identity is historically inaccurate. Whatever its ultimate origin is though, it doesn't seem to be related to traditional mainland Greek or Turkish cuisine, so labelling it as one or the other is doubly misleading. --IamNotU (talk) 17:55, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
IamNotU, you 've convinced me.Cinadon36 (talk) 18:33, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just to drive the point home, not necessarily for you but so we have something to point to for all the people who keep adding "hellim" back in, here's a Google search, restricted to English-language results, for hellim -halloumi -peynir -peyniri -peynirli -"hell im" -warcraft -thraw -helm.
  • I excluded "halloumi" so as not to count pages not referring matter-of-factly to the cheese as "hellim" but where the name of the cheese is itself a focus of discussion, in which case it's likely that "hellim" is being given as the Turkish name for the cheese, not as the English name.
  • I excluded several derived forms of "peynir", Turkish for "cheese", because sources containing them are likely discussing Turkish terminology overall (because no one is going to argue that "peynir" is an alternative term for "cheese" in English), in which case, again, it's likely that the mention of "hellim" is to point it out as the Turkish name for the cheese.
  • I excluded "hell im" because Google helpfully tries to make up for possible typos in one's search string, and was returning hits with the consecutive strings "hell" and "im".
  • I excluded "warcraft" because some hits were discussing a character or place, I forget which, named "Hellim" in World of Warcraft.
  • I excluded "thraw" and "helm" because several pages containing "hellim" explained that it's a Scots spelling for "helm" or "rudder", and because some were quoting a passage from Robert Burns containing the phrase "hellim thraw", using the word in that nautical sense.
What was left: 121 hits, total. Many of those uses are in names of businesses ("Hellim Cheese Factory", "Hellim Cafe & Restaurant"), from Turkish restaurant menus or reviews by people who were getting the word from Turkish restaurant menus. There just isn't a lot of evidence that "hellim" is used in English in a natural way to refer to the cheese with any appreciable frequency.
Also, check out the relative usage of the words in Google's English book corpus. Interestingly "halloumi" runs neck-and-neck with "haloumi". Largoplazo (talk) 20:41, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@IamNotU: Sorry about that reversion, I thought your edit was a reversion of mine. Largoplazo (talk) 02:45, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

However, anything beyond the etymology may still be out of place because WP:NOTDICTIONARY. It isn't Wikipedia's role to tell people what names they'll find things listed under if they visit other countries where they're available. Wiktionary takes care of that. Largoplazo (talk) 02:48, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not a problem, and you are quite correct. I don't think it's inappropriate though to mention the "hellim" name in the body of the article when relevant. There's potential to expand the article to cover the situation in Europe, and particularly the dispute over the trademark of "hellim" by the Gazi company in Germany and the application to the EU for PDO that covers both halloumi/hellim, and so on. In terms of etymology, I'm still considering how to better emphasize that the origin/history of the name is not necessarily the same as that of the food... --IamNotU (talk) 03:29, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox origin[edit]

I've changed the "country of origin" field in the infobox to "Eastern Mediterranean", since having a specific country name is contradicted by the "History" section and its citations of a variety of reliable, independent, scholarly sources that say it is not possible to determine with any accuracy. IP user 2a02:c7f:be21:5a00:1443:8977:edf8:cf9a (talk), I have reverted your change of it twice, and copied the citations to the infobox. If you wish to make the edit, please discuss it here and provide an explanation based on more-reliable sources. Please note that there are many sources that will say halloumi is a "Cypriot cheese", but in order to state it's actual historical origin, we need to rely on high-quality scholarly historical sources, published by notable academic/science publishers. --IamNotU (talk) 00:15, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Production?[edit]

Well, how is this cheese made? Savvyjack23 (talk) 19:48, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography[edit]

Hello. For a class, I am posting a few new sources that I found related to this article. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1471-0307.1998.tb02646.x?casa_token=9l6AulREIB0AAAAA:epPhXYfQhm7zY9bq8Krngo4B43IlFxVjlS2nmPkeCeivYkcA4lvqOg1UbZNn81rzkvPIU68HBP3rxS2W https://aspace.repository.cam.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1810/324396/ARC_35-2_Laoutari.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y Matzahballsoup (talk) 05:40, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Food in the Islamic Middle East[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 January 2022 and 25 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Matzahballsoup (article contribs). Peer reviewers: GDC0605.

Wiki Education assignment: Food in the Islamic Middle East[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2023 and 24 April 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Egguser44 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by IamBookcat (talk) 01:22, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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