Talk:Harriet Tubman/Archive 1

Third week of February?

0 (among others) is specifically commemorated. True? -Danspalding 19:04, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

i belive this is true myself any other comments?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 21 June 2006 212.85.28.234 (talk • contribs) 13:46

March 10 is Harriet Tubman Day--Kate 14:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The third week of February was when Negro History Week was held before it was expanded into Black History Month. Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:01, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

Somebody added that Harriet Tubman "helped over 2000 Jews escape from concentration camps during the Holocaust". Obviously false. This article must be checked for accuracy.

also she helped 300 enslaved people not just 70 and made 2 trips a year that should be added(im not quite sure how and im new)

Who is Julie Whitmore?

In the section Escape and abolitionist career, there's the sentence: "Fearing sale into the Deep South, julie whitmore took her emancipation into her own hands." Who is julie whitmore? Google and Wikipedia turned up nothing. In context, it looks like it is/should be Harriet Tubman - was that her slave name? if someone could answer this i would be greatful as it wil help me in my school project

---

212.85.28.234 13:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Danspalding 18:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

The insertion of Julie Whitmore has nothing to do with Tubman, and is just a malicious vandalism meant to confuse people.

integrate into article somehow?

William E. Seward was an abolitionist who sold some land in upstate New York to Harriet Tubman. (Note this is not the famous William H. Seward).

Added on Jun 15, 2004 under Harriet Tubman#Post American Civil War life

So, is the article correct or not? Did the former US secretary of state sell his land to Mrs. Tubman or not? --romanm (talk) 22:59, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

William H. Seward is indeed the man who sold Tubman in Auburn, NY in May 1859. William H. Seward was an abolitionist, politician, lawyer, and diplomat. He served as President Lincoln's Secretary of State.

Myths, serious commentary

Can we please keep all of the mythic / otherwise fictional material out of this site? A Civil War professor at University of Massachusetts-Boston has debunked the $40,000 reward notion. This sum would equal $2 million in today's money.

Can we dump the unsigned, unproductive, elementary school comments that make the bulk of this page?Dogru144 06:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

source for Prof. Michael B. Chesson's Tubman / Underground Railroad myth debunking: http://www.textbookleague.org/121tubby.htm Dogru144 07:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Military service

The article plays down her status as a war veteran somewhat. She achieved the rank of sergeant (the highest legally allowed to an African-American at the time) and directed the destruction of the bridge. After the war it literally took an act of congress to get her accorded a military pension. She got the pension and was buried with full military honors. Harriet Tubman was the first female enlisted member to serve in the United States armed forces, predating the second by more than fifty years.

Posting for comment before making changes. Comments? Durova 02:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

• Source? Wikibofh 14:32, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • ISBN 1557784205 The Encyclopedia of Amazons by Jessica Amanda Salmonson. There are others, but that gives a good summary. Durova 14:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

• • Ok. I don't have the book, and am not at the library, but have no reason to doubt you.  :) I'd put in your contribution, add a reference section and include that as a {{book reference}} template. Thank you for sourcing and improving! Wikibofh 15:04, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Tubman never reached the rank of sargeant, or any other rank during the Civil War. She was one of thousands of civilians who performed military service without a formal commission. She never received her own military pension - she was awarded a Civil War nurse's pension, in addition to a widow's pension as the wife of veteran Nelson Davis. She is credited with being the first American woman to lead an armed raid in wartime. See Larson, "Bound For the Promised: Harriet Tubman, Portrait of an American Hero," for extensive details and documentation.

7/8/06 While Tubman was credited with leading the Combahee River Raid there is no documentation that she planned nor lead the raid. The raid was led by Col. James Montgomery of the 2nd SC Colored Troops. While is is acknowledged she did go on and participated in the raid her exact role is unknown.

The accounts of the time, and military records do not mention her, only some newspaper articles mention Tubman. In Bradford's biography of Tubman, Tubman describes the raid. In it she talks of, burning bridges and supply lines and cutting the railroad.

In actuality the only bridge burned was the temporary pontoon bridge at Combahee Ferry. In addition the raid never got within 5 miles of the railroad.

It was in the newspaper "The Commonwealth", that tells of her exploits. Even here some of the details were wrong. There was no cotton to destroy, the plantations were rice plantations.

She goes on to say, in her biography, she didn't understand the "language" spoken by the slaves, Gullah. This would preclude her actually going into the field to do any first person spying. A lone, or unknown black woman who could not communicate with the local population would have been very suspect in the area. There was only one road on the Chehaw Neck running from the mouth of the Combahee River north and it is over 3 miles from the river.

In addition some of the intelligence was very lacking. If proper intelligence had been done then the position of river obstructions just upriver of the ferry would have been known. There is evidence that some on the raid did have some prior knowledge of the river, namely J. Plowden. More than likely she used her position as a nurse and confident to the freed slaves, to interact with some of the locals and her connections with the Federal officers to pass on the information she received.

All this being said, the Combahee River Raid was a great feather in the hat for the Federal forces. It proved the worth of the 2nd SC Colored Troops. Freed over 850 slaves and caused military confusion to the Confederates. The participation of Harriett Tubman cannot be denied and she was an important component in the raid. The problem becomes the later exaggeration of her exploits during the raid.

This raid was the blueprint for further raids by the Federal Troops on other coastal towns in the Department of the South. Just a few weeks later Montgomery along with the 54th Mass. raided, sacked, and burned the undefended town of Darien, Ga. using the same tactics. Bringing the war to the populace, not just military objectives. This coming from the philosophies of both Montgomery, who fought with Lane in Bloody Kansas, a Jayhawker, and General Hunter, who considered all in the South traitors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeff G (talk • contribs) 15:18, July 6, 2006

• Do you have a citation for this information? Wikibofh_(talk) 15:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem comes from the unsubstantiated stories repeated in the many books written over the years including Bradford's biography of Tubman. For the Confederate reports of the raid the OR, Official Records of the War of Rebellion is a good start. As far as has been determined the Federal records do not still exist. Numerous letters are also included in later revisions of Tubman's biography but they too do not go into detail of her actual movements. Many interpretations and assumptions have been made over the years without documentary proof. For the philosophies of Hunter and Montgomery a good start would be "Hunter, Lincoln's Abolitionist General". Jeff G 18:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I see that once again the biography has been changed to include unsubstantiated information. The problem then becomes separating legend and hearsay from fact. What can be substantiated with proven facts? There is no evidence she ever went into the "field" to spy or warn the slaves. There is no direct evidence she originated or led the raid. Once the "abolitionist" newspapers got hold of the story, only then was Tubman's role made public. Even her own biography is filled with untruths. So we must rely on primary sources, which are unfortunately scant. This is not to belittle her exploits, rather is is an attempt to publish only the truth. If someone can produce information from a primary source that details how she "planned and led" the raid or her actual spying in the field prior to the raid, I would love to see it. Jeff G 13:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)HI

In fact "Jeff" there is significant documentation for Tubman's role in that Combahee River raid. Check my book, Bound For the Promised Land, for documetation, as well as the latest research being done by, I believe, a local research in South Carolina. Tubman was aided by several local men who gave her information. Walter Plowden was not one of those locals - in fact, he was a spy like Tubman who got information from locals. He was from New York, not South Carolina. Not every enslaved person in the Port Royal district spoke Gullah, and no doubt people managed to communicate when they needed to. Tubman was also paid $200 for her spying services, so it seems th egovernment treated her as a spy, too. See the National Archives and research published in NARA's Prologue magaine. --Kate 14:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for replying Kate. The only documentary evidence from the National Archieves is a $100 receipt given to her, issued on Folly Island for "Secret Service" duties. The Union reports of the raid are missing. In her autobiography she states, "dey laughed when dey heard me talk, an' I could not understand dem, no how". What I am pointing out here is the difficulty she did have in communicating due to the local dialect. I do agree she was able to communicate however. I know of no documentary proof that she ever went into the interior of South Carolina as a lone spy. If one examines the area and the historical maps and military history of the area it would be nigh impossible for a lone black woman, to wander this area. Please go back and read my discussion posted. I never belittled her nor her accomplishments. Nor did I state she was not on the raid. What I did point out is the lack of primary documentation on her role in the raid, and the inconsistencies in her own autobiography with the historical facts. There were no military storehouses. The never reached the railroad or telegraph lines, of which she states they did. The only bridge burnt was a temporary pontoon bridge over the Combahee. What is important was she was on the raid, and over 750 slaves were freed. This raid is also the only documented instance of her on one of these raids. In fact possible due to the non-military destruction wrought from this raid by Montgomery, on June 9 General Hunter issued a directive to restrict the raids to current military objectives. Which Montgomery promptly ignored when a short time later he and the 2nd SC, and the 54th Mass. raided Darien, Ga. and proceeded to burn the entire town with the exception of a church. These were the same tacts he used in Kansas as a disciple of Lane. We can speculate all we want about who did and didn't do what. But if we are to present the story as fact we had better be able to back up what we write. My own opinion is she as a black woman was trusted by the local blacks who were fleeing to Beaufort and Hilton Head in droves. As she also had a relationship with the Union commanders she was able to turn this information over to them in an expedient way. She evidentially knew of Montgomery from his earlier pre-war exploits and was probably instrumental in providing intelligence to the Union forces to plan the raid. Also as a black woman she would be more accepted by the local population who did have a fear of the "Yankees". So her work as a spy probably did not entail so much the actual physical sorties into the interior as much as she operated a "spy network" using locals. Her unique abilities and intelligence allowed her to do this work while at the same time doing humanitarian work as needed. She was and is a remarkable woman who's story should be told. I have been working with researchers here in South Carolina and was responsible for the presentation of the raid to the SCDOT prior to their work on the bridge replacement, at the site of the Combahee Raid, which has brought this episode to daylight. (Jeff G 17:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC))

What did Harriet Tubman do after her abolitionist career?

Tubman continued to fight for civil rights for women and African Americans. She was a community activist, a farmer, business woman, suffragist, cook, nurse, wife, and mother. She and Nelson Davis, her second husband, adopted a baby girl in 1874. They named her Gertie. Tubman always took in people who were sick or homeless. She eventually opened an infirmary and a home for sick and aged African Americans, because there were no facilities available at that time for them.

What makes Harriet Tubman an American Hero

Harriet Tubman is a hero becasue of everthing she has accomplished and all of the innocent black americans that she saved from slavery. I personally admire her. She had so much courage and bravery. This is how she got through all of the rough times she had saving tortured souls from the terror of being a slave. She is one of the most important "conductors" on the underground railroad and will always be remembered. I could write much more but i must get back to my history assignment.Harriet Tubman is an american hero because she helped over 300 slaves become free. Duh!

69.177.182.123 20:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

so what year exactly was Harriet Tubman born?

it tells what year she might have been born but not the exact date she was born so this is not really any good information that i could have used in my school project. january 27. 2006

We do not know the exact date - most slaves did not know when they were born exactly. We do have a record for a payment on March 15, 1822, to a midwife, who helped Harriet's mother give birth. Based on other historical documents, we are fairly certain this documents Tubman's birth. Midwives were paid anywhere from the day of service to within a month of providing care. So, we estimate that Tubman was born sometime between February 15 and March 15, 1822.

Most teachers are unreasonably skeptical about Wikipedia in the first place.

As a teacher, I believe wikipedia should be treated with skepticism, as ANYONE can write it, and malicious vandalism can mar the whole project. Besides, it's better to properly verify with a book. Don't be lazy. =) Elefuntboy 04:50, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

malicious additions

There is some nonsense content under heading "Reproduction" that needs to be removed. Also, the lines "It is little known that Harriet Tubman was actually a white African American. It was just in Americas' mind that she was colored," need to go.

Otherwise, a very helpful and informative read.

The malicious edits to the aforementioned section were removed, and it was retitled 'methods.' Also, I reverted the removal of the 'early life' section, which was blanked without explanation. Dalstadt 00:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

harriet tubman hero?

iwonder is harriet tubman rele a hero? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.85.28.234 (talk • contribs) 13:48, 21 June 2006Well yes because helping them slaves is the best, in my opinion.Harriet Tubman is a true Hero!

harriet tubman's real name?

what actuially is her true name please reply for my school subject

If you read the beginning of the article, you will find the answer to your question. Ladydayelle 16:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)Harriet Tubman's real name is Harriet Ross.

explanation please

• "I can't die but once."

—Harriet Tubman

This is in response to the question of how a woman could continue to risk her life time and again to bring slaves to freedom. She points out that it's not a continuous death, and her work should not be avoided for fear of execution. Elefuntboy 04:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

She was born Araminta Ross, but she changed her name to Harriet, presumably after her mother. Her last name was Ross before she married-then she married John Tubman and took that last name.

Harriet was born Araminta Ross, later in life people started calling her Harriet.

Is it possible to take the down the "cite check" header, warning, thingy?

I'm reading this article and it seems that every issue that was raised on this talk page has been addressed.

Taking down. Durova 02:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Protection or Semi-Protection

Maybe it's just me but it seems like this article gets enough vandalism that it should be protected or semi-protected. Ladydayelle 13:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• It's pretty low level but consistent. Every once in a while I get tired of it and sprotect for a few weeks to give us a break, but thi sisn't too bad....right now. Wikibofh_(talk) 14:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• Why is it that tubman is being constantly vandalized? do you need some satus to protect or can anybody?

151.197.50.51 20:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Harriet Tubman Mysteries

The mysteries of Harreit Tubman are when she was born and how old she was when she died. Nobody knows. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.39.99.110 (talk) 19:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Harriet Tubman Aswers???

She was born 1820-1823. She died at ages 90-95. That is what people think. Nobody knows for sure. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.39.99.110 (talk) 19:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Comment Section Added

I have just added a new section to the article, titled 'Comments'. Feel free to post your positive feelings about Harriet Tubman. -Cattya —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.85.66.178 (talk) 17:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC). hoe would you not no when she was born.....all of you all are prows yall should know this is crazy i really need to know and am not getting any information.....ohhhh my.

Does anybody know when Harriet married John Tubman?

I REALLY NEED TO KNOW!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rebecca N K (talk • contribs) 03:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

Nelson Davis

Unless someone can find something notable he did besides marrying Harriet after the war, I think his brief stub article should be nerged into this one. Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:01, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe Nelson should only have a link, but placed in Harriet Tubman's article.Vinaq 16:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)Vinaq

What famous people were alive during the same time as Harriet Tubman?

What famous people were alive during the same time as Harriet Tubman? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.198.13.197 (talk) 20:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Vandalism

Whoever is doing this crazy stuff with the article should stop. This isn't a game.Vinaq 16:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)Vinaq

Nelson Davis

Unless someone can find something notable he did besides marrying Harriet after the war, I think his brief stub article should be merged into this one. Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:01, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe Nelson should only have a link, but placed in Harriet Tubman's article.Vinaq 16:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)Vinaq

Does anyone know when Nelson Davis died. It would be VERY useful in my report! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.251.10 (talk) 01:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Errors

My research indicates that Harriet Tubman returned to the South 19 times and helped free more than 300 slaves, not the 13 trips and 70 slaves your article indicates.

Kate 14:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC) The research clearly indicates that Harriet Tubman did not rescue 300 people in 19 trips. Sarah Bradford made those numbers up. Harriet Tubman herself remembered bringing away 50 to 60 in 9 trips - she told people this over and over again in 1858 and 1859. She made one more trip in 1860, bringing away another 7. We can document 13 trips and 70 people, plus about 70 more she gave instructions to who found their way to freedom on their own. We can name and date most of them. Tubman returned to Maryland to rescue family and friends - the people loved the most. If you have done the research, please let us know when she made these 19 trips and the names of the 300. Thank you.

I am with u kate, my teacher told us 300, but i researched myself and found out it was only 70.Alyaly94 22:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Historians now believe that contrary to what people used to believe, Harriet Tubman escorted only about 70 people out of slavery. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.161.211.18 (talk) 12:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Her owner, Eliza Brodess, posted a 40,000 reward for her return

40,000 what? Dollars? That seems like an awful lot of money for a single mother who is selling possessions to repay debts.

Of course not dollars! This was in the 1800's. I'm sure they had a different system for money...don't you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.251.10 (talk) 01:51, 6 March 2008 (UTC) -

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p1535.html says "By 1856, Tubman's capture would have brought a $40,000 reward from the South. On one occasion, she overheard some men reading her wanted poster, which stated that she was illiterate." This implies that perhaps it was somebody else who posted the reward... Bjartmarr 00:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes My research indicates at least 200 if not almost 300 slaves saved - it's in every published history book I have read.

Eliza Brodess posted a $100 reward for Minty's return in 1849. The federal government posted a $50,000 reward for the capture of John Wilkes Booth, which was an enormous sum, over $1,000,000 in today's currency. The $40,000 reward for Tubman's capture was manufactured in 1868, after the Civil War, by Sallie Holley. Encycopedias and history books are now changing their information about Tubman, now accepting that she rescued about 70 friends and family in about 13 trips. You know, there are alot fo myths in history books.... Betsey Ross sewing our nations flag is a myth, George Washington cutting dow the cherry tree and never telling a lie... those are just the simple ones. The fact that Tubman returned even once is remarkable, and 13 times is revolutionary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.134.241 (talk) 19:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

So we're sure about this? Can someone give a reputable source other than wikipedia, because the britannica school edition that I use says 19 trips, but a source would be nice. G man yo (talk) 10:47, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

The source has been in the article ever since it passed the FAC. I've added the reference to the lead, since it's likely to be challenged/edited when it appears on the front page. Read the Larson book for more info. Scartol • Tok 21:29, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

If Kate is correct, and Sarah Bradford did, in fact, make these numbers up, then why do we still have her in the bibliography? Shouldn't we get the information from somewhere else, or is Sarah's work trustable otherwise? G man yo (talk) 08:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Also, I just found this on an article from the Baltimore Sun written by Jamie Stiehm written in '07 that states:

"She made eight or nine expeditions deep into Maryland to rescue scores of slaves, many of them from her family network. According to legend, she carried a musket -- both for protection against capture and to keep wavering escapees from turning back and betraying the group."

So maybe it's unsure how many expeditions she made. Not only that, but I found another article that says that the exact year of her birth is 1822. This article, however, is from '04.G man yo (talk) 08:41, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a given that the precise number of trips she made is uncertain. Larson's book is the most comprehensive scholarly look at the evidence, and she indicates that 13/70 is the maximum supported by the facts. (There may have been others, but the evidence only supports 13/70.) The Bradford book is only really used to quote from, and it is generally accepted as a reliable source for quotes, since Bradford interviewed Tubman. Thus it's fair to include her book in the Bibliography section. Scartol • Tok 16:16, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

The Underground Railroad and the Civil War

The heading "Early Life" seems inadequate to describe these crucial periods in Tubman's life, so I suggest the above new heading.

I also propose adding the following text on Tubman's role in John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry, a subject at present omitted from the article.

"According to the Harriet Tubman Organization in Cambridge, Maryland, Harriet Tubman committed herself to participate in John Brown’s raid of 1859 on the federal arsenal at Harper’s Ferry, West Virginia. Brown’s purpose was to arm the slaves and launch a slave rebellion. According to the Harriet Tubman Organization, her illness alone prevented her from participating in the raid."

"Since many of Brown’s followers were killed at the arsenal, and Brown was later tried and executed, it seems likely that had Tubman participated, she also would have died at the scene, or would have been tried and executed. Her decision to participate is more evidence of her intense devotion to the cause of abolition, but was it wise? Could a slave revolt in North American ever have succeeded? The failure of all the slave rebellions in North America, the most famous being the Nat Turner Rebellion, suggests that success was unlikely. Finally, the Haitian Revolution (1791-1804) did succeed, but slaves in Haiti formed a large majority, and force able to stop the revolution was far away. Neither of these conditions was present in North America."

Chateau-Gaillard 16:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

There are many errors and unsubstantiated statements concerning her CW period. "before long she was leading a band of scouts through the land around Port Royal." There are no primary sources that she ever went into the countryside.

Bradford, Clinton and Larson all report that she led these scouting expeditions. Larson sometimes visits this page; perhaps she can discuss the issue. – Scartol • Tok 17:19, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Documentation for her petition for back pay and for her pension claim all document her leadership of a team of scouts recruited among the local population and others (Walter Plowden, for instance, was from New York). Kate (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

There is still no primary sources. Recent books are not conclusive. The Bradford book is full of unsubstantiated statements and in many cases the incidents and results she wrote about simply did not happen. There is also no evidence she was ever armed.Jeff G (talk) 14:20, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the woodcut in the front of Bradford's book comes from a photograph, now lost. If she was photographed with a rifle, well, then, do you suppose she had a gun? Kate (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

If you notice, Bradford is only used for quotations or reprinted material (ie Douglass). If primary sources are needed, we'll have to throw the whole article out, because Clinton and Larson are the only comprehensive reliable sources available. If you can demonstrate why their independent claims are false, we can take a look. Scartol • Tok 14:57, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

"provided him with key intelligence which aided the capture of Jacksonville, Florida" again we have no primary sources to back this up. Hearsay is not fact.

While I don't have primary sources to back it up, I do believe – again – that Larson confirmed this item in Clinton's book. (They both came out simultaneously.) – Scartol • Tok 17:19, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I cannot confirm Clinton's claims on Jacksonville - see below Kate (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

"...guided three steamboats around Confederate mines in the waters leading to the shore." While 3 ships did start out on the trip only two advanced as one ran aground. Tubman had no first hand knowledge of the torpedoes or waters. Some of the pilots that she was associated with did have the navigational skills of the river. The phrase ..."leading to shore" is misleading as the torpedoes were in the river, not an open body of water as is inferred.

I'll defer to others on this point; perhaps Larson can weigh in. – Scartol • Tok 17:19, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

"...understood that it was being liberated" Should be "they" were being liberated.

Except that the sentence reads: "slaves throughout the area understood that it was being liberated". Thus "it" refers to "the area". – Scartol • Tok 17:19, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Then you need to define the area. What area are we talking about, what were the loose boundaries? The entire area was not being liberated nor were all the slaves that wanted to go liberated, many were left behind.Jeff G (talk) 14:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

"....steamboats packed full of slaves took off toward the north." Actually the gunboats went to the southeast and east back to Beaufort, not to the north. Jeff G (talk) 14:47, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Changed to "toward Beaufort". – Scartol • Tok 17:19, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually I would challenge Larson or anyone else to show the documentation that she actually "led" the raid, that she ever traveled into the interior to spy or scout. It is curious that no Union officer at the time mentions her involvement or her spying. Even Higginson's account of the Jacksonville raid doesn't mention her. This is a story that has grown to mythological proportions and some are more than willing to allow the myth to perpetuate.Jeff G (talk) 20:54, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

The documentation for Tubman's role as a scout and spy is strong and incontrovertible. She is not mentioned by Union officers in their official communications, although she did receive several letters of support from Union officers when she tried to get back pay as a spy and to get a pension. She was officially paid $100 for early scouting and spy work - that document is held in the National Archives. I suggest to those who question Tubman's actual service, please read my book for the details and documentation. I am not sure about the Wiki article claim that she provided intelligence at Jacksonville. I have never seen that evidence. The source listed for that claim cites Clinton's book, but she actually cites another secondary source, Earl Conrad's biography from 1943. Conrad's book is not wholly reliable and all of his sources should be double checked (as with most secondary sources). Conrad and others cited by Clinton often made inaccurate assumptions and leaps of interpretation, mostly because they did not have the benefit of the hundreds and hundreds of pages of documentation now available. Kate (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Hairdresser

I have never heard of Harriet Tubman being a hairdresser, and even if she ever was, I wouldn't categorize her as an abolitionist and hairdresser any more than I'd call her an abolitionist and nurse or abolitionist and childcare giver. I suspect vandalism, and accordingly I am removing the text "and hairdresser" from the headline. Starsword333 04:10, 3 October 2007

Good catch - I looked at that but did not have the knowledge of her biography to be confident in reverting. docboat 04:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

harry was a very good person i am marcus winchester jones inam a fith grader —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.145.157.225 (talk • contribs) 15:56, 16 October 2009

John's story?

Added today an episode about her purported return to help her husband - I have asked for a citation, but suspect this is erroneous information (vandalism??) - is there anyone who can verify the facts? docboat 06:53, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I added the citation you wanted. Lmessenger 03:46, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

A section for what she did after her escape?

I think it would be helpful if we add a section about what she did after her escape. (e.g. Philidelphia)

Lmessenger (talk · contribs)

Major revision

I have begun work on a major revision of this article, using books by Larson, Clinton, and Humez as the major resources. They indicate that some of the details of Tubman's life (for example, the $40,000 bounty) are mythical. Hopefully I'll be able to get to the truth behind many of these well-told stories. Other folks are obviously welcome to work on the article as well, but are asked to discuss major structural changes before making them. – Scartol · Talk 22:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, I'll rewrite the lead once I've filled in all the relevant info from the article. Please leave it as is until then. – Scartol · Talk 00:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The revision is done. Edit as you will. (Thanks to everyone who helped with peer reviews and whatnot.) – Scartol · Talk 03:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Real nice work on an article that needed it.--Idols of Mud (talk) 19:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Image

Hi, I've replaced the late portrait with a higher resolution restored version of the same image. Durova^Charge! 18:06, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

This lady is awesome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.124.114 (talk) 04:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Number of rescued slaves

There's currently an ongoing discussion on Talk:Underground Railroad about the number of slaves Harriet Tubman rescued and the number of rescue missions she embarked on. The Underground Railroad article states over 300 slaves were rescued on 19 missions, but this article puts the figures at 13 missions to rescue 70 slaves. Both of these claims have sources backing them, so I would like to know which one is right. Morganismysheltie (talk) 02:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

no original research!

if that rule was actually followed, this wikipedia page would be a sentence long; perhaps larson would also like to explain how she got her facts when the locals, even those of color, would not talk to her or gave her conflicting info. she gives her own commentary as fact. go ahead, keep whining to the boston newspapers. you are as bad at manipulating and exploiting info as wikipedia users are.WillC (talk) 22:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Most of the information included in this article from Larson's book is confirmed by Clinton's text as well. Are there specific details to which you're referring? Scartol • Tok 15:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Image of slave removed

User WillC made an edit in January 2009 which removed this image of a slave's scarred back, indicating that it is "not directly relevant to tubman". While of course that is technically true, I still feel that it should be included in the article, since it illustrates the sort of aggressive physical treatment (to put it mildly) that Tubman endured as a child and young adult. What do other users think? Scartol • Tok 14:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

No, I think pictures are sometimes used too liberally on the English Wikipedia. It's not directly relevant to Tubman and if users wanted to get an idea of how slaves were treated they can go to the Slavery article. Brutannica (talk) 19:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm surprised you think that. A picture is worth 1,548 words. Tempshill (talk) 22:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the picture is extremely important for historical context and interpretation. Please keep it up. Kate (talk) 21:56, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Third most famous my ass

The article previously cited Larson as claiming that Tubman is "one of the most famous individuals in American history, third only to Betsy Ross and Paul Revere". This seemed totally dubious, so I tracked down Larson, and the survey he referenced. You can find that survey here: http://www3.baylor.edu/Oral_History/Frisch.pdf (probably should be referenced in the article, but Wikipedia's reference system has gotten too arcane for me). In short, Tubman was the third most frequent response to "Write down the first ten names that you think of, EXCLUDING PRESIDENTS, GENERALS, ET CETERA, in response to the prompt, “American History from its beginning through the end of the Civil War.”" I have updated this article accordingly (the front page remains to be fixed). ^L_Wizard @

I can think of no more harmonious approach to this topic than titling it "Third most famous my ass". =) On a more serious note, I wonder if, when you tracked down Larson, you realized that he was a she? (I'm not familiar with too many men named 'Kate'. Perhaps the "he" was a typo, or it referred to someone else.) Irregardless, I will take a look at the PDF file in question and see if I can find the Larson book again to see what its source was. Thanks for bringing this issue to the table. Scartol • Tok 19:34, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

ha ha, you said 'Irregardless' Man It's So Loud In Here (talk) 15:00, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Why did Tubman move to Auburn, NY?

A sentence describes Tubman's move to Auburn, NY "to deliver her parents from the harsh Canadian winters." Was that REALLY her reason, or just a Wiki user's opinion? Anyone with some geographic sense will realize that Auburn, NY, is not very far from Ontario, geographically or climatically..... Nojamus (talk) 12:54, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

That's the reason given by Catherine Clinton, on p. 117 of her book. (Thus the footnote with that info immediately following the sentence.) Notice that there are in fact two reasons given in that sentence; the other is that Auburn was a center of anti-slavery organizing. But in either case, you may rest assured that the information in the article is not just a Wiki user's opinion. Scartol • Tok 19:36, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

"Tubby"? Surely not right?

I don't know anything about Harriet Tubman, but surely the caption on the picture shouldn't be "Harriet TUBBY"? Mabalu (talk) 02:58, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

In the future, if you spot vandalism like this, you can fix it yourself. The best way is to click "history" at the top, then use the "diff" links up at the top to spot recent edits that are most likely to have been the vandalism you spotted, then click "undo" next to that edit. If this is all too time-consuming then you can just edit the page and make the fixes manually. Tempshill (talk) 22:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Museum?

There is a Harriet Tubman museum in Macon, Georgia. Should this be mentioned? Brinkley32 (talk) 07:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Harriet Tubman Song

This article brought to mind a very moving song I learned years ago about Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad. It is called either Harriet Tubman or Lifeline. It was written by Walter Robinson. The chorus goes: Come on up, I've got a lifeline. Come on up to this train of mine. Come on up, I've got a lifeline. Come on up to this train of mine. She said her name was Harriet Tubman, and she drove for the Underground Railroad. --Little Flower Eagle (talk) 18:37, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Small correction

First line of second paragraph reads "Tubman was beaten and whipped by her various master to whom she had been hired out." Should be "...various masters...." Small, I know. But it bothered me, and I couldn't change it myself. Also, as a side note, "out" is a needless preposition at the end of the sentence. The sentence makes sense without the preposition, so therefore it's unnecessary. Come to think of it, is "hired" the correct word choice referring to the employment of a slave? Shouldn't it be "sold"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adcaev (talk • contribs) 08:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Adcaev! Thanks for your comments. I've fixed "masters" but I've left "hired out" because - right or wrong - it is a commonly used phrase and Wikipedia's guidleines on variants of English encourage us to be tolerant of different useages. As for "hired" versus "sold" - either is possible and we shouldn't make unsupported assumptions. It's possible that in her "career" as a slave she was both sold and hired at various times. -- Timberframe (talk) 09:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "hired out" is correct, since she had one owner at any given time, but that owner would (as often happened at the time) rent her to other men and women in the area. Thanks for noticing and fixing the "master" typo, although when I originally wrote the article, I assiduously avoided the word, in favor of "owner" — there are questions about people being masters of others that I tried to steer away from. But I don't want to change it back, since that might look like I'm trying to own the article. Scartol • Tok 12:44, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Harriet Tubman/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

needs inline citations plange 06:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)  Done I think you could say I've taken care of this. – Scartol · Talk 02:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 02:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:29, 3 May 2016 (UTC)