Talk:Helensburgh

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External links modified[edit]

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Jock Campbell, Baron Campbell of Eskan[edit]

"On 14 January 1966, Campbell was created a life peer, by Harold Wilson, taking the title 'Baron Campbell of Eskan', 'of Camis Eskan in the County of Dumbarton'.^[1]" (Jock Campbell, Baron Campbell of Eskan article).

This article doesn't even mention Camis Eskan, let alone Lord Campbell. Does anyone have any info about the connection? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:23, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Camis Eskan house is a mansion just outside the eastern limits of Helensburgh. The house was converted into flats in 1979. The only connection with Lord Campbell I can see (from Jock Campbell, Baron Campbell of Eskan) is that his Jock's great-grandfather was "Colin Campbell of Colgrain", who is presumably the "Colin Campbell from Renfrewshire" mentioned this account of the house as being the owning family until 1946. If you want to see more details of the house, look on Rightmove at the flats for sale. AlasdairW (talk) 20:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I know that when people get 'elevated' (!) to the Lords, they have to choose some location to be Lord of. So I guess he chose the 'ancestral family seat'. I think we may assume that he must have visited his grandparents there in his youth. But for the purpose of this article, it is probably all irrelevant: I don't think that Helensburgh can claim him as one of its illustrious sons. I'll leave it to you to decide whether a line or two about Colgrain and Eskan is worth including in the article. Thank you for your interesting reply. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 10:13, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Colgrain is mentioned in the article as the name of a primary school, and it could also say that it is a name for an eastern part of the town. Camis Eskan is in List of listed buildings in Cardross, Argyll and Bute, which is slightly surprising but I don't know the exact parish boundaries. The article on Jock Campbell could benefit from a slight change to not have a confusing link, but as I know nothing about Mr Campbell I will leave that to others. AlasdairW (talk) 21:36, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, could you which confusing link you mean? Is it [[Helensburgh|Camis Eskan]]? So are you saying that Camis Eskan is not a locality, it is the Big House itself and the locality is Colgrain? If so, then I guess we could have [[Helensburgh#Colgrain|Camis Eskan]], if someone (you!) would add a brief section about Colgrain? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I mean [[Helensburgh|Camis Eskan]]. Perhaps this could be changed to [[List of listed buildings in Cardross, Argyll and Bute|Camis Eskan]], which does list the house, and now has a photo. Although Colgrain could be mentioned here, I doubt that Camis Eskan, a private block of flats in a Category B listed building will be. AlasdairW (talk) 22:10, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hoped that you might add two line section about Colgrain in the article and use the Camis Eskan house pic as a thumbnail to illustrate it, especially a being a listed building makes it a notable feature of the town (albeit not in the same league as Hill House). Colgrain seems worthy of at least a sentence, don't you think? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:17, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It turns out that there is an article on Colgrain, which is about the tiny village (a few houses) just to the east of Helenaburgh. "Colgrain" is also used to refer to the eastern edge of the town, at least informally, and is in the name of the primary school and bowling club. Helensburgh has 13 Category A listed buildings and over 100 Category B listed buildings, so I don't think Camis Eskan is notable. AlasdairW (talk) 21:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I thought from what had been said above that Colgrain had been swept up by Helensburgh and is now a suburb. I will change the Campbell article to point to the village. Thank you for your help on this. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Camis Eskan was let to a Mr Gow between 1915 and 1936 [1], and was used as a hospital during the war, so there may not have been much chance for Jock Campbell to visit the house. AlasdairW (talk) 21:52, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, like I have done, he went to see Hill House and was reminded of the family connection nearby? I doubt that we shall ever know! Interestingly, https://www.mackintosh-architecture.gla.ac.uk/catalogue/name/?nid=CampWM says that his grandfather was a client of CRM but doesn't say what the commission was. Camis Eskan House doesn't leap off the page as one of his designs? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "No. 43873". The London Gazette. 14 January 1966. p. 435.

WP:SCOTLANDPLACE[edit]

WP:SCOTLANDPLACE, RE Placenames in Argyll: please see WP:SCOTLANDPLACE which makes a specific exception where it says: "Settlements in Argyll and Bute. Mainland Argyll settlements should be styled placename, Argyll. For example, Tarbet, Argyll." LITTLE LUGS (talk) 22:23, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Quality Assessment upgrade[edit]

I have updated the quality assessment of this article from 'Start' to a 'B' rating. However, the page does have a strong feel of being written by one or more local historians from their own personal knowledge, and with little regard to supporting factual statements with citations that others can Verify for themselves. I've added a few 'citation needed' templates to flag up where some attention is needed, but didn't want to over-pepper the page with them. I could have added lots more! Hopefully, keen editors will address this issue as they work to improve and develop this page. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:17, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "No. 43873". The London Gazette. 14 January 1966. p. 435.

[1]