Talk:Hero (Mariah Carey song)

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Good articleHero (Mariah Carey song) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 30, 2011Good article nomineeListed

Fair use rationale for Image:HeroSample.ogg[edit]

Image:HeroSample.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page. If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 18:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

éirígí Alternative Video[edit]

I added the following information in relation to a cover of the song/x factor version. It is perfectly legitimate material, relevant to both the original song and the x factor cover and is fully cited/referenced. It should not be removed on the grounds of "propaganda" as attempted by some british users as it's as neutral/unbiased as the x factor's Help for "heroes" release and doing so would be unfair and potentially libelous to wikipedia as it would indicate bias/censorship.

On the 14th of December 2008, Irish political party éirígí released an alternative video to the X Factor's "Hero" release on their website.[1] In a statement on their website, the party claimed that "In response to the release of the X Factor’s ‘Hero’ in support of Britain’s occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq éirígí has compiled an alternative video highlighting the true nature of modern day imperialism".[2] The video was removed from various video hosting sites in the days following its release.[3]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.81.139 (talk) 10:54, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Everything on Wikipedia has to adhere to the basic policies, the five pillars. Everything must be verifiable, neutral and ultimately relevant to the article at hand. One of the key guidelines that governs Wikipedia is notability, is what is being included notable and relevant to the article at hand. Does it give sufficient weight? In an article about a Mariah Carey song, is it relevant to include a parody of a cover? No, it isn't, it is completely undue weight. Quote from WP:UNDUE "Keep in mind that in determining proper weight we consider a viewpoint's prevalence in reliable sources, not its prevalence among Wikipedia editors." I can see no reliable source that discusses this video, its effects, or its viewpoint. Woody (talk) 15:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note, left note at WT:MILHIST, WP:SONGS, WP:NIR for wider discussion. Regards, Woody (talk) 15:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Woody is correct. I have removed the section and protected the article. I also commend Woody in bringing the dispute to the attention of the projects. If the anonymous editor can show that that version has been mention in reliable, independent sources, then it can be mention with due weight. Until then, the two 'references' were pretty unconvincing: one was basically 'get this as much as possible on the internet..." The JPStalk to me 15:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's fine that it's mentioned in the éirígí article, but not that much here. It can be briefly pointed out that there's a parody and a link to the respective part of the éirígí article. This could be done via the see also section. Wandalstouring (talk) 16:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Coming at this from the MilHist side I'd agree that inclusion of any commentary lends undue weight to the opinion of a small group, although mention is probably reasonable on the page related to that group. That said I think that the proposed wording has an inherent bias and should probably be moderated anyway.
In addition I think that the current discussion of the X factor rendition is excessive, the level of detail is unnecessary with a blow by blow account of each performers contribution each time it's been performed. I would say that probably also falls under the undue weight consideration as well. I'd recommend a serious culling, probably bringing the substantive content down to no more than a paragraph.
ALR (talk) 17:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just pop my head in; I think Woody et al have done the right thing in this situation. With no reliable sources, there shouldn't be a section on the video. Skinny87 (talk) 17:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.eirigi.org/latest/latest141208.html
  2. ^ http://www.eirigi.org/latest/latest141208.html
  3. ^ http://ie.indymedia.org/article/90222?userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true

X factor release -- Hero (X Factor release[edit]

As a result of discussion above, and out of common sense, I have copied over the contents of the Hero cover bit to Hero (X Factor release). As this page is protected, it would be a breach of policy to remove it from this article without a consensus. Can I go ahead and remove it all from this article and create a stub paragraph? Regards, Woody (talk) 17:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Chord Progression[edit]

Hello folks. "The song's chorus has a basic chord progression of Gsus2–G–G/F♯–Em7–G/D–C-G/B–Am" Just wanna comment on this. Is this basic chord progression? --Efe (talk) 14:22, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Efe. I honestly have no idea, but when I re-did the article I had a friend (don't remember which one) take a look and do their best to decipher it. Do you know anything about this?--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 00:10, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Hero (Mariah Carey song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Rp0211 (talk2me) 05:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


OVERALL REVIEW

After thoroughly reviewing this article, I have decided to put this article on-hold to allow time for changes. Most of the article is fine and ready for good article status. However, there are some minor issues that I addressed below keeping it away from good article status that involve the prose of the article. I will give a week for these mistakes to be fixed and/or defend any items below that you believe do not affect good article status. - Rp0211 (talk2me) 06:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:


Lead
  • "The song experienced strong success in several international markets, becoming Carey's eighth chart topper on the Billboard Hot 100." - For clarity, make it "...in several international markets and also became Carey's..."
  • "...topping the charts in Ireland the UK for three weeks..." - Fix sentence grammar
Background
  • "In 1989, Carey was discovered by Tommy Mottola, CEO of Columbia Records, and was promptly signed to the label." - Needs a reference
  • "...four other tracks were written and produced by the former..." - Instead of former, put last name of producer
  • "...the only hold over from her debut." - Unclear terminology
  • "Emotions contained influences from mostly 1950's, 60's and 70's balladry and gospel, as well as her continued work of R&B and soul." - Needs a reference
Writing and recording
  • No issues
Composition and lyrical content
  • "I call it the 'Spirit of God'that dwells within me." - Put space in between "God" and "that"
Copyright lawsuits
  • "This case has been thrown out of court thee times." - Fix spelling of "three"
Reception
  • "On November 8, 2008, following the release of the "Hero" by the X Factor finalists, re-entering the chart at number 100." - It should be "it re-entered.."
Music videos and re-recordings
  • "Additionally, a music video was filmed and released for the 2008 version, featuring behind the scenes footage of the song's recording, as well as Carey's writing music in the studio." - Needs a source
    • Traditionally, we don't require sources for music video synopsis, as it is readily verifiable to everyone, and is not always sourced by a high quality reference. See other article to see what I mean.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 19:38, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Live performances
  • No issues
Cover versions and uses
  • No issues
Track listings
  • No issues
Credits and personnel
  • No issues
Charts
  • I recommend using Template:Singlechart under the "Peak positions" subsection. It is not required for GA status, although it makes it more organized.
The X Factor UK 2008 finalists version
  • No issues
See also
  • No issues
References
  • Reference 19 - Does Fox News need to be italicized?
  • Reference 60 - Does MTV News need to be italicized?
  • Reference 62 - Does BBC News need to be italicized?
Works Cited
  • No issues
  • I believe everything is done. I will get to the template when I have more time. Thanks :)--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 19:38, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
All issues have now been addressed. I now feel confident to pass this article to good article status. Congratulations and very good work with this article. - Rp0211 (talk2me) 22:19, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

'...per say [sic]...'[edit]

Hi there :D Just enquiring into changing 'per say [sic]' to 'per se' :) I'm all very new to this :) However, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't 'per se' and 'per say', phonetically speaking, identical? :) How is the conclusion being drawn that she said 'per say' when the message wasn't encoded on a written medium and I as such feel we can't assume that she confused 'say' for 'se'? :) Again I've only recently started doing edits of this nature and so I look forward to a reply as I clearly as of yet to do not understand how such matters are discerned and I'm sure there's reasoning behind this edit :) Thanks in advance :) Can't Let Go (talk) 01:50, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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