Talk:Hertha BSC

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Dates & dashes[edit]

En dashes should be used in scorelines and only full dates and dates with a day and month should be wikilinked, including in the footnotes. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dashes) and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers). Epbr123 20:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

After reviewing the style manual links you provided: the wikilinking of years appears to be something that is up in the air and looks to depend on the preference of various editors; there is no reference at all to the use of dashes in sports scores that I could see - the use of a colon is a common convention in German football, and so can at least be said to fit the context in the absence of a hard and fast rule. ??? Wiggy! 02:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hertha BSC vs Hertha BSC Berlin[edit]

Since the B in BSC already stands for "Berliner" and the official name is "Hertha BSC", I think the title of this page should only be "Hertha BSC". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.53.194.205 (talk) 15:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The organization's own offical logo - prominently displayed in the article - seems to belie the notion. Best to just leave it be perhaps. Wiggy! (talk) 19:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, keep in mind, Hertha BSC Berlin is not the only club in Germany with the Hertha in its name, I know of at least two more. My recommendation is to stick with the current name. EA210269 (talk) 04:25, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe if I can further suggest, Gruene's Vereinslexikon is recognized as a definitive reference for German football clubs, and we might point to it as an authority? I'm pretty sure it uses Hertha BSC Berlin. Using that book as a standard might help avoid a lot of argument ... Wiggy! (talk) 02:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The official name of the club is Hertha BSC (see official club page and Bundesliga club page). The "Berlin" has been added to the crest sometime in the 1990s or even later in order to create a regional identity for the club. In any case, the article should run und either "Hertha BSC" or "Hertha BSC Berlin" as "Hertha Berlin" is definitely not the name to go here. Nevertheless, the latter form surely has to be referenced in the first sentence of the article lead because the English media uses this form a lot (for some weird reason). --Soccer-holic (talk) 12:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree with this. The club is called "Hertha Berliner Sportclub", IIRC, so to refer to it as "Hertha BSC Berlin" is tautologous. "Hertha BSC" is the only feasible title, IMO. – PeeJay 12:36, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the clear common name Hertha Berlin, I never hear it referred to as anything but Hertha Berlin. chandler · 12:42, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously depends on where you life, where I come from it was always Hertha BSC or just Hertha. But the official name seems to be Hertha BSC Berlin, as in the logo. EA210269 (talk) 12:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well this isn't about in Germany but English common name chandler · 13:06, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if common name is the way to go, we be moving Manchester United to Man U now, as it seems to be what everybody calls it nowadays. Can't we just approach it scientifically, as an Enciclopedia might be expected to do and stick with the proper name? I think it would take a lot of debate out of naming articles! EA210269 (talk) 13:14, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Come on, that's a blatantly false analogy. Common name IS the way to go, and that's official. Beve (talk) 14:55, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The only two logial choises are Hertha BSC and Hertha Berlin. I have no problem with either, but we should all agree that Hertha BSC Berlin is derived from a misunderstanding of the crest? -- Grant.Alpaugh 17:20, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Its not from a misunderstanding of the crest. Its whats used in Vereinslexikon and thats a reliable source. You must have missed my arguments above on the point. That said, I don't have a problem with Hertha Berlin. Hertha BSC is not transparent enough for use in an Englsih language encyclopedia as it assumes an understanding on the part of the reader that might not exist. Wiggy! (talk) 17:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From the club's official website "In 1920 the sportingly successful Hertha merged with the rich Berliner Sport-Club. From then on the new club was known as Hertha BSC." I agree that the article should either be at Hertha BSC (official) or Hertha Berlin (common). пﮟოьεԻ 57 23:59, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To me, Hertha Berlin remains ambigious as there are three clubs in Berlin that carry Hertha in their name. Hertha BSC is the better choice for me. EA210269 (talk) 00:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Let's put the article at Hertha BSC. --Soccer-holic (talk) 15:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thirded - the article should be moved to Hertha BSC. GiantSnowman 17:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(4) Okay, now we're getting down to it. I'm good for Hertha BSC, but someone should also set up redirects for Hertha Berlin and Hertha BSC Berlin. And maybe a disambiguation page for the term "Hertha", which should help cover off the multiple Hertha's in existence? And maybe leave off for a day to let everyone chime in if that's okay? Ill drop a note to User:Kingjeff who's be occasionally involved in this so he knows what's up and we're all onside. Wiggy! (talk) 18:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hertha already exists as a disambiguation page, linking to both Hertha BSC and Hertha Zehlendorf, that bit is easy. EA210269 (talk) 23:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The question is what is the common name in english? On the official english version website I either see Hertha or Hertha BSC. If my memory serves me correctly, the wikipedia page name 1. FC Nuremberg went from 1. FC Nürnberg to 1. FC Nuremberg based on the official english website for 1. FC Nürnberg. So, it's probably should be Hertha BSC since Hertha would not be a feasible option. Kingjeff (talk) 02:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Madcynic (talk) 11:44, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


By the looks of things, Hertha BSC is the consensus name. Anyone wants to move the pages? Kingjeff (talk) 03:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


For the record, [UEFA] uses "Hertha BSC Berlin." Kingjeff (talk) 22:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What will be happening to the category, its still at Hertha BSC Berlin? EA210269 (talk) 01:04, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Should be at Hertha BSC. Kingjeff (talk) 02:24, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Its a lot of articles that need to be changed then, over 200 Hertha-player articles for example! EA210269 (talk) 02:28, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we can do it over night. Kingjeff (talk) 02:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think, the editor that originally moved the article away from Hertha BSC Berlin gave this any thought. Its easy to press the move button on the article itself but moving all associated categories is a lot of work! Maybe, those that supported the move so strongly and insisted on an English common name need to step in and get to work. EA210269 (talk) 02:47, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I know. I would prefer Hertha BSC Berlin. How many people will know that B will stand for Berlin? I have mentioned 2 websites that have 3 different english names for this club. Although 1 one of them (Hertha) isn't feasible. Kingjeff (talk) 02:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Maybe we should collect a number of english websites and see what they use? Kingjeff (talk) 03:10, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of websites using...[edit]

This section is to help us see what the common name in english is. I know there are millions of them. Maybe if we pick the better english websites, then it can help us determine what the most suitable name to use for the clubs. NOTE: THIS IS NOT A VOTE. Kingjeff (talk) 03:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hertha BSC Berlin[edit]

  1. The Sports Network, Canadian sports TV Station.
  2. UEFA, Europe's governing body for football/soccer.
  3. Rogers Sportsnet, Canadian sports TV station.

Hertha BSC[edit]

  1. Hertha's english website, The Bundesliga club's official website.
  2. The Bundesliga's english website, The official Bundesliga website.

Hertha Berlin[edit]

  1. Soccernet.com, ESPN's soccer news website.
  2. Yahoo.com, soccer section for yahoo.com.
  3. BBC.co.uk, British TV station.

Hertha in Europe[edit]

An anonymous user recently added a section on Hertha's record in UEFA competitions, as seen on other club pages. (see FC Vaduz for example.) The section was horribly incomplete, so I took the liberty of out-commenting it for the time being. It raises the question: is a section like this even necessary? For a smaller club without much text as far as the history of the club and similar things I can understand adding table like this simply to give the article some more substance, but on a larger article like this one the information seems almost trivial. What are your thoughts? –Sir Sputnik (talk) 14:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I actually prefer a table that includes Wins-Draws-Losses. Kingjeff (talk) 04:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Care to explain why? –Sir Sputnik (talk) 17:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer to see the details. Saying what round they made it to doesn't really say much. Kingjeff (talk) 20:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree on that point. If a table is to be included it should definitely indicate a precise record. However what I intended with this discussion is whether or not a table should be included in the first place. I personally think that it shouldn't be. Someone looking to see how Hertha did in an UEFA competition is more likely to look up the article for that competition, and not this one. Furthermore, I don't particularly want to set a precedent, since no other Bundesliga club includes a table. –Sir Sputnik (talk) 14:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]


[edit]

Can somebody change the logo to the logo of the germen Wiki? This is the official logo with the written "Hertha BSC", here is the 90´s version with the oldtype flag inside the ring....85.178.172.241 (talk) 01:17, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Morales' nationality[edit]

It seems we have somewhat of an edit war on our hands. He has a reasonable claim to three nationalities, Germany by virtue of having been born there, USA having been called up to the US U-21 team (according to transfermarkt.de), and Peru as Mr. Morales has stated his desire to play for that country in the future. I do not have an opinion on the matter, but would prefer to see the matter settled by discussion rather than constant reversion. I, therefore, invite all interested parties to discuss the matter here. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC). Morales was called to USA and accepted the calling, so he have to be with the american flag.[reply]

You can use different nationalities, too. German Wikipedia always puts every nationality, maybe someone plays for a country, but that doesn't mean that he isn't from another country, as well, e.g. Podolski he is both german and polish, but he can play for only one country.--SamWinchester000 (talk) 01:04, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hertha BSC's "Squad of the Century"[edit]

How official is this "Squad of the Century", given that the reference is off-line? It seems to be clear example of Wikipedia:Recentism, given that it includes only one player of the greatest-ever Hertha team that played in six consecutive German championship finals and won two. I think this should eiter be replaced with something more official or be removed! Calistemon (talk) 04:35, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's official it was voted by the club's members at the 111th birthday of the club.--SamWinchester000 (talk) 01:06, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Please change the new logo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/8/81/Hertha_BSC_Logo_2012.svg/500px-Hertha_BSC_Logo_2012.svg.png — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.179.4.167 (talk) 08:37, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Hertha logo is wrong[edit]

The club has a new logo for more than a year. Why is it not in place ??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.39.193 (talk) 14:33, 22 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are free to fix this! EriFr (talk) 10:08, 11 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Some statistics from 1911 to 1933[edit]

http://www.die-fans.de/no_statistik/index_historie.php?d=berlin_11_33 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.75.11.146 (talk) 23:15, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/8/81/Hertha_BSC_Logo_2012.svg/500px-Hertha_BSC_Logo_2012.svg.png — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.26.208.5 (talk) 03:10, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Club names[edit]

Pinging Hertha=Strong, who is referring to "Hertha Berlin" and "Hertha BSC Berlin" as 'false names' of the club. This is incorrect, however, as these names are often used to refer to the club. There are many sources that use the name "Hertha Berlin", including the English-language Bundesliga website, ESPN, and Sky Sports. As for "Hertha BSC Berlin", the name previously was on the club badge, and is used by UEFA, Fox Sports, and was often used historically (second to last page of this document). I don't see any reason why these names should not be included. Secret Agent Julio (talk) 08:37, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

These are the two official sites that prove the right name: Hertha BSC Satzung and Hertha BSC official club website. Please respect. I checked some sources: The Bundesliga site is probably a mistake, in the table they use Hertha BSC. ESPN and Fox Sports use the very old logo Hertha logo on their site. This is a mistake. The sites can not be trusted. I checked Chelsea F.C. and Arsenal F.C.. Both also put one correct name in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hertha=Strong (talk • contribs) 10:21, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hertha=Strong, that's not the point, though. Yes, "Hertha BSC" is the official name, but that does not change the fact that there are other names the club is referred to by. The article should include all of these common names used by reliable sources. The Bundesliga website made no mistake, as they almost always refer to Hertha as "Hertha Berlin" in English publications. It is irrelevant of what logo ESPN and Fox Sports use, as they are clearly WP:RELIABLE. Also, even the European football governing body, UEFA, refers to the club as "Hertha BSC Berlin". The article is not stating that these are official names, but rather that Hertha is sometimes referred to by different name variations. I propose adjusting the wording, to make it clearer that these are alternate names:
Hertha, Berliner Sport-Club e.V.,[1] commonly known as Hertha BSC (German pronunciation: [ˈhɛʁtaː beː ʔɛs t͡seː]),[2] and sometimes referred to as Hertha Berlin,[3] Hertha BSC Berlin,[4] or simply Hertha,[4] is a German association football club based in Berlin.
Clears up any confusion over the correct name. Secret Agent Julio (talk) 10:43, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My proposal: Hertha, Berliner Sport-Club e.V., commonly known as Hertha BSC (German pronunciation: [ˈhɛʁtaː beː ʔɛs t͡seː]), or simply Hertha, is a German association football club based in Berlin.

Thats the way the German Wikipedia site describes it. They know it. The German site also warns that names like "Hertha BSC Berlin" are wrong.

Hertha=Strong, whether you think it is "wrong" or not is irrelevant, the point is that many sources still refer to the club as "Hertha BSC Berlin". Even UEFA refers to them by that name. Clearly it is notable enough if the German Wikipedia mentions it in the article's lead. These are commonly used variations of the club's name, and should be included, based on WP:RS, not preference. Secret Agent Julio (talk) 13:25, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I checked all the entries of the Premier League clubs. The vast majority highlights only one name. This should be a model for the Hertha article too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hertha=Strong (talk • contribs) 10:25, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hertha=Strong why? These are valid alternate names. English clubs do not make for a good comparison, as this article covers a German club on the English Wikipedia. I have provided multiple sources that prove these are common names that the club is sometimes referred to by. Many English media sources refer to the club as "Hertha Berlin". Even the German Wikipedia includes "Hertha BSC Berlin". Why are you so opposed? Secret Agent Julio (talk) 11:10, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]


References

  1. ^ "Satzung des Hertha, Berliner Sport-Club (Hertha B.S.C.) e.V." [Statutes of Hertha, Berliner Sport-Club (Hertha B.S.C.) e.V.] (PDF). HerthaBSC.de (in German). Hertha BSC. 1 July 2007. Retrieved 22 January 2017.
  2. ^ "Hertha BSC: News des Clubs im Überblick" [Hertha BSC: News of the club at a glance]. Bundesliga.de (in German). Deutsche Fußball Liga. Retrieved 22 January 2017.
  3. ^ "Hertha Berlin – Profile". Bundesliga.com. Deutsche Fußball Liga. Retrieved 22 January 2017.
  4. ^ a b "Hertha BSC Berlin – Profile". UEFA.com. Union of European Football Associations. Retrieved 22 January 2017.

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Extraordinary experience ![edit]

Watched Hertha Berlin vs Mönchengladbach. No trouble, very little policing, tobacco smoking and beer allowed at the seats. It now seems to me like the entire Bundesliga is one gigantic party. Half the crowd (52.000) was standing up all the time, singing and singing and singing. A Berliner version of good old Rod Stewart's Sailing thundered out from the 30.000 standing in the eastern curve. Easy access to tickets, affordable to most (25 Euro). I guess 95% of all who so desire , can afford watching their favorite team's all home games in Bundesliga. There were a few seats of honour, but no "VIP hospitality" to be bough for money. The match was an event for all. Just like it used to be in England and Scotland. I'm old enough to remember how the ground attendance crowds behind the goals used to sound at Highbury, Stamford Bridge and White Heart Lane.
Britain is the home of football. Or at the very least the home of both the rules of football as well as of how to sing a long. It's not all gone, but I fear Football as attraction and entertainment in the UK has gone in the wrong direction during some 25-30 years by now. But it's indeed still both possible as well as desirable to make some kind of U-turn back to how football used to sound like in England. Of this, the Hertha Berlin (And Mönchengladbach) supporters convinced me of.

I think we should (within our pillars and guidelines, naturally), should try to make and find articles which well can compare how it used to be, how it is now, from the perspective of "Watching Football" and differences between leagues. And also who can afford to watch all home games of their favorite club. Etc.
Boeing720 (talk) 17:24, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"2023–24 Hertha BSC season" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect 2023–24 Hertha BSC season has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 21 § 2023–24 Hertha BSC season until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 18:58, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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