Talk:Himalayan Sheepdog

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 18 May 2013, see discussion.
Keep, 21 March 2008, see discussion.

Dogs Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Canidae and commonly referred to as "dogs" and of which the domestic dog is but one of its many members, on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DogsWikipedia:WikiProject DogsTemplate:WikiProject DogsDogs articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Dogs To-do:

Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Dogs:

Recent changes patrol: members can review the recent changes list to be aware of improvements or vandalism.
Expand and improve citations: Akita (dog), American Bully, Artois Hound, Azawakh, Barbet (dog), Basset Fauve de Bretagne, Bavarian Mountain Hound, Bearded Collie, Beauceron, Berger Picard, Black and Tan Terrier, Black Norwegian Elkhound, Border Collie, Border Terrier, Bouvier des Ardennes, Bouvier des Flandres, Braque du Bourbonnais, Brazilian Terrier, Briquet Griffon Vendéen, Brittany (dog), Bullenbeisser, Bull Terrier, Ca de Bou, Cairn Terrier, Cardigan Welsh Corgi, Campeiro Bulldog, Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Chilean Terrier, Chow Chow, Colombian Fino Hound, Corsican Dog, Cretan Hound, Croatian Sheepdog, Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Danish Spitz, Dingo, Dobermann, Dogue Brasileiro, Dunker, East Siberian Laika, English Cocker Spaniel, English Foxhound, English Toy Terrier (Black & Tan), Erbi Txakur, Estonian Hound, Estrela Mountain Dog, Finnish Lapphund, Flat-coated Retriever, French Bulldog, Galgo Español, Gaucho sheepdog, German Hound, German Shepherd, German Wirehaired Pointer, Glen of Imaal Terrier, Gordon Setter, Great Dane, Greek Harehound, Griffon Bruxellois, Guatemalan Dogo, Gull Dong, Halden Hound, Hamiltonstövare, Hanover Hound, Havanese dog, Hokkaido (dog), Hovawart, Ibizan Hound, Icelandic Sheepdog, Indian Spitz, Irish Setter, Irish Terrier, Irish Water Spaniel, Istrian Coarse-haired Hound, Jagdterrier, Jämthund, Kai Ken, Karakachan dog, Karelian Bear Dog, Karst Shepherd, Keeshond, Kokoni, Kooikerhondje, Koolie, Kuchi dog, Kuvasz, Labrador Retriever, Large Münsterländer, Lucas Terrier, Magyar Agár, Miniature Bull Terrier, Miniature Fox Terrier, Mongrel, Mountain Cur, Northern Inuit Dog, Norwegian Elkhound, Norwich Terrier, Old Danish Pointer, Old English Bulldog, Old English Sheepdog, Pastor Garafiano, Pastore della Lessinia e del Lagorai, Patterdale Terrier, Pekingese, Perro Majorero, Peruvian Hairless Dog, Petit Basset Griffon Vendéen, Pharaoh Hound, Plummer Terrier, Plott Hound, Polish Greyhound, Porcelaine, Portuguese Water Dog, Pudelpointer, Rajapalayam dog, Rat Terrier, Saarloos wolfdog, Sabueso Español, Saint Miguel Cattle Dog, Šarplaninac, Schipperke, Serrano Bulldog, Shikoku dog, Skye Terrier, Sloughi, Slovak Cuvac, Small Münsterländer, Smithfield (dog), Smooth Collie, South Russian Ovcharka, Spanish Water Dog, Standard Schnauzer, Swedish Vallhund, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Terceira Mastiff, Thai Bangkaew Dog, Tibetan Mastiff, Tibetan spaniel, Tornjak, Weimaraner, Welsh Hound, Welsh Terrier, West Siberian Laika, Westphalian Dachsbracke, Xoloitzcuintle, Xigou
Stub class articles in need of development: Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, Argentine pila dog, Armant (dog), Assyrian Mastiff, Banjara Hound, Billy (dog), Braque Dupuy, Bruno Jura Hound, Bulgarian Scenthound, Ca Rater Mallorquí, Calupoh, Campeiro Bulldog, Can de Chira, Cane Paratore, Cantabrian Water Dog, Chortai, Córdoba fighting dog, Denmark Feist, East European Shepherd, English Shepherd, Faroese Sheepdog, Gończy Polski, Grand Griffon Vendéen, Gull Dong, Hanover Hound, Hygen Hound, Japanese Terrier, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Kunming dog, Kurdish Mastiff, Levriero Sardo, Mahratta Hound, Majorca Ratter, Maneto, Markiesje, Molossus (dog), Montenegrin Mountain Hound, Rampur Greyhound, Romanian Mioritic Shepherd Dog, Sapsali, Sarabi dog, Schweizer Laufhund, Segugio Maremmano, Segugio dell'Appennino, Sinhala Hound, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Taigan, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Tazy, Toy Bulldog, Treeing Cur, Vikhan Sheepdog, Westphalian Dachsbracke, White Shepherd
Suggested Featured Articles due for re-assessment: Beagle (2007)
Suggested Good Articles due for re-assessment: Swift fox (2008); Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (2009); Clumber Spaniel (2009); Russian Spaniel (2009); Sussex Spaniel (2009)
Requested images: Briquet de Provence, Denmark Feist, Erbi Txakur, Jeju dog, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Levriero Sardo, Liangshan Dog, Perdigueiro Galego, Segugio dell'Appennino, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Tarsus çatalburun, Tibetan Kyi Apso, Vikhan Sheepdog, Villanuco de Las Encartaciones

Searches[edit]

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malcolmxl5 (talk • contribs) 00:47, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article extremely short[edit]

This article has no info at all about this particular breed. Not even a picture is shown. There is no description of behavior, temperament, etc etc. For example if you read the wiki article about German Shepherd Dog, you can see the difference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xyz887 (talk • contribs) 09:12, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bhote Kukur[edit]

This information is inaccurate. Bhote Kukur is the Nepalese name for Tibetan Mastiff, "Bhote" means Tibetan and Kukur means Dog in Nepalese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.255.77.24 (talk) 18:49, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

About name "Bhote Kukur"[edit]

Hello !

Friends,

I'm not a Dog expert, but just Dog lover.

And, about the name "Bhote Kukur"...

I think, "Bhote Kukur" generally means any dog which has a big bark.

I asked few villagers in near mountain side about "Bhote Kukur"... few of them said, "Bhote Kukur" have pointed ears. And, some said non pointed ears.

There, I saw many Tibetan Mastiff type of Dogs. But, none of them were like from Europian or American showring version... but smaller in size. Not like Donkey or Horse size as mentioned in "Tibetan Mastiff" page.

So, I asked a Tibetan refugee, who lives near to my house. They have pure Tibetan Terrier (which I tried to buy, but they refused to sell. But, I don't know why.) They said, Tibetan Mastiff pure breed is rare to find and difficult to bring. So, my hope is there are still pure breed Tibetan Mastiff in Tibet or near Tibet/Nepal part.

So,

I suggest.

"Bhote Kukur" is given to any dog which have a big booming bark. Aggressive/Temperament, loyal to one master, Courageous (must fight Snow Leopard, which is common in Nepal. And, should kill fox/jackel; which is common in Nepal.)

Thus; this Ship herding Dog's name "Bhote Kukur" / "Tibetan Dog" should be acceptable. But, it is not "Mastiff".

Thank you.

(Sorry for long post)

ठिस बुढा (talk) 11:16, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes little knowledge is dangerous so better not define you personal view Bikaash (talk) 12:30, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gaddi Kutta[edit]

This article is a WP:CFORK of Gaddi Kutta as the Himalayan Sheepdog is another name for this breed (see this reference, as well as this one). I have therefore merged this article into Gaddi Kutta. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 09:11, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Anupam, I have found three reliable sources for these dogs (two cite Bhotia as the primary name, one Himalayan sheepdog) so I have recreated the page. I cannot find a single reliable source for Gaddi Kutta. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 11:46, 26 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Merger proposal: Gaddi Kutta[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was redirect. Cavalryman (talk) 21:21, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I propose to redirect Gaddi Kutta to this article. I can find no significant coverage in reliable sources for the Gaddi Kutta, only a couple of mentions of "Gaddi dogs" or dogs belonging to the Gaddis in a couple of newspaper articles and academic papers. Of the sources cited on the current Gaddi Kutta page, only one is reliable and fits the above description of making a single reference to Gaddi dogs, the others both fail as RS but also describe these dogs as Himalayan sheepdogs, another name for the Bhotia.

My rationale for the redirect is these dogs fit the broader description of Bhotia dogs, as in a livestock guardian dog that is found in the Himalayan foothills if India from Kashmir to Eastern Nepal, and there are the scant references of these dogs in a couple of newspaper articles. Hopefully in time some more sources emerge to either recreate the Gaddi Kutta page or include something on the Bhotia page. Cavalryman (talk) 01:52, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The Gaddi Kutta article has one newspaper source which refers to the dogs of the Gaddi people. All other sources and external links concern the Himalayan sheepdog apart from one which refers to the Bhotia. William Harristalk 09:56, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Origin of the breed[edit]

Bhotia bhotiya is not found one Nepal. Can somebody edit the origin of the breed Bikaash (talk) 11:16, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Bikaash (talk · contribs), basically what you are trying to introduce contradicts the sources, but ... the sources are split between calling these Himalayan Sheepdogs or Bhotias. Would moving the page to Himalayan Sheepdog allay some of your concerns? I have read that some consider the Bhotia to be one of a number of regional varieties that make up the larger Himalayan Sheepdog breed group.

This is something I have previously considered, when I first rewrote the page the majority of sources available to me called these dogs Bhotias, since then I have found more sources so it is no fairly split between the two names. Cavalryman (talk) 02:39, 14 February 2021 (UTC).[reply]

I would be in favour of a move to Himalayan Sheepdog. It would clarify what we are referring to without having to navigate regional names. (There is bound to be a sheepdog out there in the Himalayas somewhere.......) William Harris (talk) 01:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Cavalryman (talk) 07:48, 15 February 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Without knowledge and researchs Just changing name doesn’t define any thing how can someone create a breed in wiki just on a hoax .. Even Mongolian Bhankhar doesn’t have a wiki breed how come these nonsense dog is established as a separate breeds as per the regional names. Totally baseless articles. Don’t you see 3 wiki dog breed articles Gaddi kutta, Bakhrwal Dog along with the Bhotia creating with the same origin India? These all name are to be regional name of native aboriginal TM just like Bhotekukur in Nepal, Mangolian Bhankhar in Mongolia, somewhere DoKhyi. But now this bhotia,gaddi,bakharwal dogs are not in the purest form(original native TM) but mixed with other baseless dog breed. Just seeing the colour and some coats doesn’t make them a separate breed they are mixed breed. May be there are stil some left somewhere in the remote. But making separate breed articles just taking the base/reference from baseless research of some westerners who go to the place once in years..... the dogs may have lost the size weight with different reasons like inbreeding, crossbreeding that doesn’t mean the same name is to be given to this changed generation of dogs. Now you have changed it to Himalayan sheep dogs . Not every shephard have the aboriginal breed. Bikaash (talk) 12:29, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

About the new name Himalayan sheep dog[edit]

Cavalryman is think you should stick to gun hound and hounds. That seems to be your part than giving this name to this useless article here. Bikaash (talk) 19:08, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bikaash, as you are an extremely inexperienced editor I will provide some advice, familiarise yourself with WP:NOR, WP:V and WP:RS, it is clear you are unfamiliar with all of them. Further, I suggest you read WP:EQ, your manner is unnecessary. Cavalryman (talk) 01:32, 24 February 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Origin.[edit]

How is bhote kukur claimed as Indian? Just like they claimed Buddha was born in India once? Kttalks (talk) 04:28, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Who are "they"? There are 3 expert reliable sources stating India. What are you proposing, and based on what? William Harris (talk) 10:43, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]