Talk:Hogere Burgerschool

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Netherlands

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HAVO[edit]

"HAVO" schools (established in 1968) are no successors to the "HBS", since they do not provide access to universities. Rbakels (talk) 15:02, 9 September 2012 (UTC) [reply]

HBS and Dutch prominence in science[edit]

Some have linked the HBS system with a significant number of influential Dutch scientists making significant discoveries (e.g. Kamerlingh Onnes). Any idea if there's a source that states so conclusively? JFW | T@lk 21:49, 10 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Translation[edit]

@Dan Carkner: the wording

Hogere Burgerschool or HBS (Dutch: Higher Civic School)

threw me for a loop because what I normally see is

Metropolitan France (French: France métropolitaine or la Métropole)

where the language before the colon indicates what follows. If it's translated to English I usually see one of three formats:

Bibliothèque nationale de France ("National Library of France")

Très Riches Heures du Duc de Berry or Très Riches Heures (English: The Very Rich Hours of the Duke of Berry)

chanson de geste (Old French for 'song of heroic deeds')

Personally I like the first since like you said it should be clear that the translation is English.

I hadn't seen the way you worded it before, and hopefully this clarifies why I edited it.

Cheers, Fredlesaltique (talk) 01:15, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I have no problem with that in principle. I didn't write this article, just follow it, but I commonly write articles about "foreign" topics where I format it kind of like in this example. But now that I look at the manual of style I see that it doesn't give much specific guidance for this kind of thing, as far as I could tell, and some of the examples it gives do follow your example a bit more, but rather in giving the foreign term after giving it in English. My only other comment here is that the schools would really only ever have been known by their Dutch names so however it is formatted, it should reflect that somehow.--Dan Carkner (talk) 07:00, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. I noticed that too about giving English first and then the native term. Knowing Wikipedia, I'm sure someone's written about it, but I only have so much energy to go down rabbit holes. Closest I could find was Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section#Foreign language

But that's neither here nor there. How about the quotes version?

Hogere Burgerschool or HBS ("Higher Civic School")

Fredlesaltique (talk) 07:18, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm I'm not sure. I also came across this one just now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility#Other_languages

which suggests another way that I haven't usually done it, but occasionally seen.Dan Carkner (talk) 15:46, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Dan Carkner: I think that's more for foreign terms in general, like mentioning how Japanese people used to wear geta as footwear. Closest I could find for titles was here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English) and here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_titles#English-language_titles, but the English convention applies only if there is an English version in use by reliable sources. So if there isn't (as you said), then using the Dutch term with an English translation after seems uncontroversial, which makes it just a question of format. What do you think?

Fredlesaltique (talk) 01:05, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There's definitely a lack of clarity, so I will continue to try to do it as I see fit when writing articles myself, but in the future I will not intervene to "Correct" other ways of doing it, where someone is just using another way to express a similar thing.Dan Carkner (talk) 01:47, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]