Talk:Honda ST series

Merger proposal

Propose merging Honda ST1300, Honda ST1100, Honda Pan European and any other strays that might be out there to this page, Honda ST series. Most of the above pages are padded with stats which should be moved into the infobox, or contain material that should be deleted, such as original research. When you cut out all the fat, there's about enough meat on these three pages for one article. --Dbratland (talk) 20:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support a merge. -- Quiddity (talk) 21:29, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
• Disagree. To be honest I think ST1100 and ST1300 can stand apart, especially as the bikes are quite different models, what I would suggest is getting rid of the Honda ST series article, which serves no purpose if the other two exist. --CIHAGM (talk) 22:48, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd suggest Holden VE Commodore as a good example (Featured quality) of an article that is a result of a few merges. See Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Transport and Wikipedia:Good_articles#Road transportation and policy for what we need to be working towards. -- Quiddity (talk) 01:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Disagree. As per Quiddity, the 1300 and the 1100 are totally different machines, with only one part carried across from the 1100 to the 1300, namely the handle that is used to assist you putting it on the centrestand. 1845, 24 Feb 2010 (GMT) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deanwiltshire (talk • contribs)

I would suggest considering how Honda CB900F turned out after merging the orginal CB900F with the later Hornet 900. These are two utterly distinct bikes, with almost two decades separating them. But they are connected by both the model code name and the role the play in Honda's lineup; they fill the same niche.

From the point of view of the general reader, the article Honda CB900F tells a coherent story about Honda, motorcycles, and the CB900 series. If the purpose of Wikipedia were only to help mechanics distinguish models apart and see which parts belong to which, then you'd separate the pages, but that is not what WP is for. Without a doubt, the ST1100 and ST1300 are much closer to one another than the older and newer CB900Fs. --Dbratland (talk) 01:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Is the ST1300's center of gravity actually lower?

Doubtful. The 1300 has significantly higher seat and other factors like sporty suspension with 1.5° steeper rake and 3.5" shorter wheelbase (!). According to at least one Visordown review the older model "ST1100 hides its weight well, and low" implying a low CG. Supposedly the engine was mounted lower on the newer model but I haven't seen any actual design data or testing backing this up. Roadrunner said the 1300 was more mass-centralized and easier to turn, but that doesn't equate to lower CG; in fact sportbikes have a relatively high CG. If the CG actually is lower on a fully fueled 1300 it probably has more to do with the split tank moving ~50 lbs of fuel around than anything else, engine mounting included. ☆ Bri (talk) 17:48, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

I have left tag. -72bikers (talk) 13:44, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I merely sub-edited the existing text to make it more readable; I do not claim its veracity and am happy for it to be deleted if it can't be upheld. Arrivisto (talk) 18:42, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I will look around and see if I can find a source that either supports or dismisses. -72bikers (talk) 14:03, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

The 1300 seat listed in the article is 31in, the height of the 1100 is 31.5, but the 1300 is also adjustable up or down from that, Seat Height 775, 790, 805mm (30.5, 31.1, 31.7in.). I have also found some sources that appear to support the lower CG.

[23] If you've ever ridden an ST1100 - not a tough bike to handle at all - you will be surprised how easy it is to steer the 1300. The new bike follows your dictation without hesitation and keeps the line through the curve accurately and safely. Ten years ago, no one thought a 1300cc bike could be this easy to handle, ever. The wide handlebars help a lot and provide a perfect lever for turning. In addition, the ST gained through its well-balanced chassis, concentrating a lot of mass close to its center of gravity, and its chassis specifications:

[24] The all-new engine featuring a revised layout orientated the weight downward, resulting into a less top-heavy ST1300 than its predecessor.

[25] The ST1300A’s low overall centre of gravity helps with excellent low-speed handling. -72bikers (talk) 00:39, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Merger proposal (2018)

Sport-touring on North Cascades Highway

Although the merger proposal was first made some 8 years ago, I would be happy to see such a clean-up. Arrivisto (talk) 18:45, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Agree, and Dennis Bratland's earlier rationale for doing this is still sound. If we could get the bike with my tent on the pillion back in the article, that would be great too :) [just half kidding] ☆ Bri (talk) 19:01, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Given that there are three existing ST pages, perhaps the way forward might be to create a new fourth page, say, "Honda 'Pan European'", made up from the other three. Then once it's all tickety-boo, reduce those three into redirects to the new page? Arrivisto (talk) 11:54, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

I've now done it. it still needs a bit of work, especially the image positioning and the inbox duplications. Help gratefully received! Arrivisto (talk) 18:48, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Made some initial cleanup of the section levels. I think each model needs a brief introduction at least telling its production history, and in the case of the 1300 that it was a successor model! Maybe somewhere the re-use of the engine in the CTX series, which isn't really a successor AFAIK, being sold as a full-on touring machine. ☆ Bri (talk) 20:03, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

ST1300 has longitudinal layout

@Bri: I corrected this in the Infobox for the ST1300, but this was reverted. I’m curious as to why? Rjbarbour (talk) 00:41, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Self reverted, sorry. I've been watching this article for a long time but missed when it was erroneously changed to transverse. I thought your edit was in the opposite direction. ☆ Bri (talk) 14:59, 3 August 2020 (UTC)