Talk:Howard Mayers/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 21:15, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

I'll get to this shortly. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:15, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Comment I have a couple of drive-by comments on this one.

1. The official history says that he was "shot down and killed by ground fire" (Herrington, Air War Against Germany and Italy p. 254)

• Herington is the only source that recites this as his fate. From all the sources that I checked, it seems that no body was found with the aircraft, so they assume that he was made a POW and died during transportation to Europe. Nonetheless I have put Herington's account as an alternative possibility. Zawed (talk) 08:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

1. The final line says that he is commemorated at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra. If he was an Australian serviceman, his name would be on the wall. However, he wasn't and he isn't. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:23, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• Have dug into this, and you are correct. As Mayers was not serving with the Australian armed forces, he is recorded on the Commemorative Roll at the AWM, not the wall. The source that I used on this point didn't differentiate between the two. I have added an additional cite from the AWM for this. Zawed (talk) 08:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Prelim

• No duplicated links.
• Image is correctly licensed. Another image, of a Hurricane or similar, wouldn't go amiss in the main text
• No edit wars.
• Earwig reports copyvio unlikely.

Lede and infobox

• Could use c. instead of writing it out
• before becoming a businessman in London?
• "being forced down" might be a little vague for the casual reader. Suggest "forced to land"
• Could add alma mater and service number (CWGC and LGs) to infobox

• This section, all done. I have worked mention of the service number into the text so I don't need to have a cite for it in the infobox. Zawed (talk) 07:49, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Early life

• Can directly link Cambridge University Air Squadron

• Done. Zawed (talk) 07:53, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Do we know what kind of business he was in?

• Unfortunately no. Zawed (talk) 07:53, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Second World War

• "As a serving member of the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve" reads as if we know why this is the case, but should be clarified how/when this came about

• My sources don't provide any context for this but I assume it is a consequence of serving in the Cambridge University Air Squadron. I have deleted "As" from the sentence as I agree it does imply some inferred knowledge. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link Second World War

• Done. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link commissioned

• Done. I am starting to use this link in my new articles BTW! Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Label the Hurricane as a fighter (first link is currently with the 109)

• Good catch. Fixed and moved link. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• "as probables" > "as probable kills"

• Done. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Why not link the entirety of The London Gazette?

• Hmmm, no reason! Done. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link bale out

• Done. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link Dover

• Done. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Where is Ballah?

• Somewhere in the Suez Canal area. I couldn't find a blue link for it, for there is a redlink for the RAF station there so have added. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Mayers is promoted to acting wing commander...and then promoted to acting squadron leader? (also, do we know when he makes flight lieutenant?)

• Yes, this is confusing. I think the Ashcroft source (which states his promotion to WC in Nov 1941) may be in error when comparing to the LGs, which I think is more likely to be correct. I've revised this but can't be very specific as when exactly he was promoted to WC. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link acting

• Done. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Give a date for Operation Crusader

• Done. Zawed (talk) 09:03, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link strafing

• Done. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link No. 260 Squadron

• Done. Zawed (talk) 09:03, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Bar does not need to be capitalised

• Done. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• You have Mayers assuming command of 239 Wing in April, but his DFC citation describes "his wing" in February, and he was already a wing commander?

• I'm not sure what is going on here - I reckon he may have been in charge of an adhoc fighter wing formed for Op Crusader, which ran up to the end of December 1941. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Label the Kittyhawk (as a fighter I assume?) and the C.202

• Done. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Link dogfight

• Done. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• Can we specify the type of "ground fire"? Are we saying he (maybe) was killed in the air by fire from the ground, or that he was shot on the ground after landing?

• The source is not clear on this. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

• I count 4.5 probables in the article, not 3.5?

• Double-checking this, I made a mistake and wrote up one as a probably when it was actually damaged. Zawed (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

References

• References look good. AGF for print sources.

@Zawed: Hi, sorry that this is taking me a while. I moved house just recently and my current (temporary) wifi doesn't let me access the majority of my resources. I hope to complete this review asap, as long as EE aren't lying to me! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:53, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

All good. Zawed (talk) 09:03, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Just a heads up that I hope to have full access again on/around 23 November. If I haven't posted anything here soon after that feel free to ping me! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:13, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

@Zawed: Well, that took a lot longer than I had hoped! Comments above. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 20:22, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: Thanks for another comprehensive review, you scrutinise these articles very carefully. It makes for a very robust product at the end of the GA process. I have dealt with the various issues identified. Unfortunately, the issue around the promotion to wing commander and its timing is still a little murky despite my best efforts. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:11, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: just checking you have seen this? Zawed (talk) 21:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

@Zawed: Sorry about that! Happy to pass this as satisfying the GA criteria. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 11:31, 28 November 2022 (UTC)