Talk:Howling Bells/GA1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:43, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Starting the review[edit]

I will be going through each of the criteria in order. I reserve the right to return to earlier comments/sections and revise/add to them until the review is finished. Unless otherwise indicated, maintain existing wikilinks and formatting. The review process should take about a week. I will allow an additional week for any requested changes to be made before making my decision.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:43, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

General comments As a UK-based Australian band, dates should be in dmy format not mdy and spelling/grammar in British English/Australian English not American English.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:06, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]


A good article is—

    Criterion 1[edit]

  1. Well-written:
    2. (a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and
    (b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.[1]
    Infobox
    1. Caption: For a band shot, it would help a casual reader to know who the members are. Left to right.
    Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      1. Try Howling Bells, Summer Sundae, August 2008
        Left to right: Brendan Picchio, Juanita Stein, Glenn Moule, Joel Stein         More concise.
        1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:59, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Origin: De-link Sydney, Australia. Both are common terms. Replace with Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Labels: use a comma-separated list, omit parenthetical dates (include them in main text).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. URL: use {{URL|myspace.com/howlingbells}}
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Current_members: An extra space after Moule can be deleted.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:06, 27 March 2011 (UTC) Lead[reply]
    1. De-link London; Sydney, Australia; England; UK. Common terms.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Opening sentence should tell a casual reader when the group formed. Instead of originally hailing from Sydney, Australia try which formed in Sydney, Australia in 2004 or similar.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Consisting of sister and brother Juanita Stein (vocals/rhythm guitar) and Joel Stein (lead guitar), Glenn Moule (drums), and Brendan Picchio (bass), they are all former members of the disbanded group, Waikiki. > Consisting of Glenn Moule (drums), Brendan Picchio (bass guitar), Joel Stein (lead guitar) and his sister Juanita Stein (vocals, rhythm guitar). All were from pop rock group, Waikiki which disbanded.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. The next two paragraphs both contain unclear and imprecise prose with padding and repetition. There are also issues with neutral tone (more on this at Criterion 4). With suitable trimming and moderated tone the two paragraphs can be combined into one.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. Not quite, further work is required on this paragraph to provide concise, clear and neutral content. See also words to watch.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      3. Keep going. Hint: reduce the following phrases to more concise ones:
        1. "have obtained a level of moderate popularity, mostly in"
        2. "since the release of their 2006 self-titled debut album,"
        3. "They toured extensively throughout England prior to and after the release of the debut, as well as being invited to open for artists including"
        4. "was met with a variety of mixed reviews, though, it would end up charting in both"
        5. "were welcomed to support"
      4. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. At first use of UK substitute with United Kingdom.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Pipe [[Placebo (band)|Placebo]] correctly.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. Spelling: recognised, favourable.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:11, 27 March 2011 (UTC) Formation (2004)[reply]
    1. Delete NSW, most readers should know where Sydney is.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. De-link Australia but link Juanita Stein and Waikiki (first appearance in Main text).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Improve expression. For example Howling Bells' origins track back to 1999 in Sydney, NSW where siblings Juanita and Joel Stein along with drummer Glenn Moule toured around the eastern states of Australia as the pop rock trio known as Waikiki. > Howling Bells formed as an indie rock band in Sydney in 2004 from the pop rock group Waikiki. The latter had formed in 1999, when drummer Glenn Moule worked with Joel Stein on guitar and vocals and his older sister Juanita Stein on bass guitar and vocals. They toured the Australian eastern states as a trio.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. "were enjoying reasonable chart success" Quantify; e.g. Top 50.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Is Brandon important to Howling Bells? Save that for Waikiki's own article.
      1. I'm going to need some more help on this because I can't figure out how to articulate it. I deleted Brandon's name but isn't it necessary to mention the addition of another member prior to Picchio, so as to not give the reader the impression that they were a trio for three years? Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. Pardon my ignorance, I don't know much of Waikiki's timeline, from my reading I thought Brandon joined after the EP but before the album. Then he left soon after its release consequently his importance to Howling Bells formation is low. in 2002,[1] and had added a rhythm guitarist and been touring all over the continent as well as New Zealand. In late 2002, their newest member eventually departed and Brendan Picchio was recruited to play bass while Juanita switched to rhythm guitar. > in 2002 with a rhythm guitarist.[1] As a four-piece they toured Australia and New Zealand, late in 2002, Brendan Picchio became their new bass guitarist while Juanita switched to rhythm guitar.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:25, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          1. I like that, but how about this: and with a rhythm guitarist, the Top 50 album, I'm Already Home, in 2002. Is that better, or no? Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          2. Chuck in "issued" before "the Top 50 album" and I'm happy.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:37, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          3. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. When was Brendan Picchio recruited? More precision needed.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. More expression fixes needed. e.g. had reached a juncture of dissatisfaction with their music so a new identity was sought and found and they re-emerged as Clarify, trim.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Early years (2004-2005)
    1. Given the single paragraph in the previous section and again in this section, the two should be combined into the same section titled something like Formation and early years (2004–2005).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Once again more work is needed in trimming and clarifying the prose. A sample is Demos of their new material were sent to British record producer Ken Nelson.[4] All together 20 to 25 tracks were made and they had about five other producers in mind as possible candidates to direct their newly recorded material towards, but in the end they decided just to send them solely to him.[5] > 20 to 25 tracks were demoed and, although they considered other record producers, they only sent them to British-based Ken Nelson (Coldplay, Gomez).[5] Maintain/add wikilinks on Ken Nelson, Coldplay and Gomex but de-link record producer.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        1. Is it okay that I moved "British-based" and (Coldplay, Gomez) to the first mention of Nelson? Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        2. Certainly.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:37, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. More de-links: England, poverty, Coldplay (if linked previously in Main text), London, telephone, Britain, pub, farm, goose, eggs, gardens.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. After being introduced in first paragraph of Main text, Brendan Picchio is now known as Picchio. Glenn Moule is Moule and Joel Stein is Joel.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Delete: held the more usual occupation for an Australian visitor to Britain of and fix rest of sentence. The last two sentences here can be summarised to reduce trivialities e.g. Joel worked on a farm is enough but do not add collecting goose eggs and looking after the gardens. This type of material will be dealt with in more detail at Criterion 3(b).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC) Formation and early years (2004)[reply]
    1. If this section only deals with 2004 it can't be early years. So back to just Formation (2004)? Or change to Formation and first year (2004)?
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. 2nd paragraph now has too many 'Nelson', where its obvious who is being referred to, change some to 'him' or 'he' as appropriate.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:55, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Howling Bells (2005-2008)
    1. Given that the album has its own article this section can be trimmed further. Once again, the prose is overly wordy, confusing and contains over-wikilinkage. To demonstrate prose which can be trimmed and made less confusing, consider the first paragraph: For Howling Bells it was a constant wait while they anticipated when Nelson would be finished working on Coldplay's X&Y album. At this point most of the songs for the debut were written more than a year, some closer to two years prior, and the band had been growing frustrated by the delay that they had not forseen.[5] If it didn't happen soon they had entertained they idea of re-locating back to Australia,[7] but finally in early 2005 Nelson was free and now ready to commit to the project. Parr Street Studios, Liverpool was where full production would take place on the inaugural album. The long delay and the cold of the British winter, which they had never before experienced, greatly affected the tone of the record.[11][12] The 'poppier' style of Waikiki had given way to the more brooding sound of Howling Bells. > Howling Bells waited for almost a year while Nelson worked on Coldplay's X&Y album. Frustrated by the unforeseen delay they considered returning to Australia.[5][7] In early 2005, Nelson was available and they recorded Howling Bells at Parr Street Studios, Liverpool. The long delay and the cold of the British winter affected the tone of their music.[11][12] The 'poppy' style of Waikiki was replaced by the more brooding sound on Howling Bells.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:14, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. Not sure of last sentence, does the sound relate to the band or the album? My advice is to refer to the debut album by title. This is supported by the 3rd paragraph in next album's section where "The album signaled a change in direction" is discussed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      3. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. De-link: songs, British winter, NME (2nd time), Europe.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:14, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Consider 2nd paragraph. Is the talent agency, A&R Worldwide, working for Howling Bells, their label or management? If so, this should be clearly identified.
    4. The first two sentences should be combined, trimmed and clarified. Convert the quote from A&R to prose, however if they are the promoting agency for Howling Bells then the quote/paraphrase should be deleted as puffery.
      1. Done – I've removed the whole second paragraph due to the fact that they are the band's promoting agency and the reviews were related to live shows and not the album. Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. The third paragraph has a very long first sentence. Trim & clarify (where was it released?)
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Add non-breakable space between number and 2 (and other similar instances).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. If it was released in May why does The Metro say its only two months in?
      1. Done – That's a good question. I don't really know. It may have been a promotional copy they were reviewing. I've removed it because it was just confusing. Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. summer months? Who for? Use hemisphere neutral terms e.g. "late 2006 and early 2007".
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. Vannucci direct quote is not cited. While there fix pipe to [[Ronnie Vannucci Jr.|Ronnie Vannucci]].shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:05, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      1. Done – I've deleted this since the video appears to have been removed. Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    10. Remember to trim and clarify the prose throughout. I've given you some examples but other sentences/paragraphs need more work.
      1. I've copy-edited some of the lead section from Howling Bells. Is this okay? Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:37, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      1. May have problems as the Lead in Howling Bells is still to be fixed during its review and may not be acceptable here either.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:38, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Radio Wars (2008-2009)
    1. Same deal. An article exists so trim & clarify further. De-link common or previously linked terms.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. The opening paragraph is unnecessarily detailed.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. producer/mixer > producer and mixer
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Has Grech-Marguerat previously worked for notable acts?
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. "the recording process was new," How so? This is their second album (third if you count Waikiki's).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Rest of 2nd paragraph needs work. Probably combine with first paragraph after both have been trimmed.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. 3rd : delete 2nd 2009, we know the year now.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. Spelling: signalled
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. Musical keyboard|keyboards I assume this is missing wikilink brackets? Leave keyboards unlinked.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    10. Too many reviews here (I count six): pick two or three representative ones. Leave rest for album's article.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    11. to support Coldplay from 15 May to 21 June in North America > to support Coldplay in May and June in North America
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    12. summer? Again.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    13. Another example of trimming: The band then supported Coldplay once more on three nights of their European tour in August and September, after which they returned to Australia to write for the third album and tour there in December.[2] > They supported Coldplay again for three nights of their European leg in August and September. The group returned to Australia to write for the third album and a tour in December.[2] De-link Coldplay (previously linked).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    14. Remove editorialising. e.g. Like Killers' drummer Ronnie Vannucci before, Howling Bells impressed the big-name bands they supported on tour; Coldplay's Chris Martin advised audiences at Coldplay's North American tour to download Howling Bells' song "Nightingale". In July 2009, Snow Patrol's Gary Lightbody named Howling Bells as his 'Band of the Week' in Q Magazine.[29] > Howling Bells were praised by bands they supported on tour: Coldplay's Chris Martin advised his audiences on the North American tour to download Howling Bells' song "Nightingale". In July, Snow Patrol's Gary Lightbody named the group as his 'Band of the Week' in Q Magazine.[29]
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    15. During the period of 2008-2009 Juanita became noticeably more confident, animated and outgoing when playing live, in terms of the clothes she wore and her hairstyle, and her interactions with the audience. It was a conscious decision to change her on-stage persona.[22] > Juanita made a conscious decision to develop her on-stage persona, during 2008 and 2009, she became more confident, animated and outgoing in her interactions with the audience and in her choice of clothes and hairstyle.[22]
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    16. In March 2009, Gigwise proclaimed Juanita Stein "the sexiest woman in rock".[30] She was also named in the top ten of ClashMusic's "Top woman of 2009".[31] > In March 2009, Gigwise proclaimed her "the sexiest woman in rock", and she placed in the top ten of ClashMusic's "Top woman of 2009".[30][31]
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:00, 29 March 2011 (UTC) Third album (2010-2011)[reply]
    1. Is this the album's title? De-italicise heading. Remove 'Main article: TBA' until it exists.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Start with Howling Bells wrote material for their next album from late 2009. Once the actual title is known, "their next album" can be replaced by its actual title.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Delete phrase Another change of musical direction was in store, as
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. 2nd Juanita quote needs cite.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Trim Wanting to stay away from the technology that was so prominent on Radio Wars they want to return to the much more organic state that they had previously known.[33] Also Radio Wars
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Next two sentences as one and trimmed.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. Time-line in 2nd ¶ is confusing. Some of it should be incorporated with starting sentence of this section.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. Label change? To which?
      1. The band blogged about it but didn't give a specific name. Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. Exact date of heading off for recording not needed in this article.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    10. Delete behind the board
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Notes of interest
    1. The heading sounds like it may have content problems and this will be further addressed at Criteria 2, 3 and 4. In this section I'll only deal with its expression and style.
    2. Influence: collectively have many influences that they are particularly fond of, three in general are > main influences are Brevity.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:47, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. They each have their own personal appreciations that they are individually fond of also. > Each member has additional views:
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:47, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:31, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Insight: spelling: theatre
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. MoS: ''[[Bellbird (TV series)|Bellbird]]''
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. before finally emigrating > before emigrating
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Peter being a big influence should be in Influence section?
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Low Happenings: is this a subHead related to their single of similar name? Its relevance is not clear.
      1. Just a play on words surrounding the situations attributed to the subheading. I will change it. Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Cite for direct quote. Time-line for Joel's despondency is not clear. Could it be April 2009 or is he recalling events from an earlier point?
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. spring? See comment regarding summer.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. Consistency: 'pepper-sprayed' or 'pepper sprayed' but not both.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. There is considerable repetition in the text. The direct quote is not needed if its has been paraphrased nearby.
    1. Touring: little actual description of their tours other than summary totals of how many gigs, how many per cities, how many per venue.
    2. Their earliest live appearance should be in Formation or Howling Bells section (depending on time-line).
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:57, 30 March 2011 (UTC) Other works[reply]
    1. Again, much of this content may have problems with later Criteria. Here I'll only consider style and expression.
    2. Wikilink checks: 'b-side' needs to be piped, 'Toxic' goes to Toxicity, delink Juanita & drop last name, de-link The Beatles.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. MoS fix the following incorrect forms: I Want To Kill A Rich Man, "LA To San Fran", Personality - One Was A Spider, One Was A Bird, singer/songwriter, "Where The Wild Roses Grow"
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Glenn Moule is Moule, Brendan Picchio is Picchio, Joel Stein is Joel.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Moule's drumming for Brats back in 2003 is before Howling Bells' formation? Relevance is difficult to understand.
      1. Reasoning is for Moule as an individual. Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Tom Smith of Editors joined Howling Bells live on stage > Tom Smith of Editors guested with Howling Bells live on stage
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Discography
    1. Only list actual released studio albums here. When the third one is finally released it can be put here.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:25, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Considerable improvement has been made during the course of this review, however imprecise and unclear statements remain. (e.g. "Howling Bells expressed hope that 2010 would see the release of their next album, but the year brought another label change and delays that come with it"). Even simple spelling errors (e.g. labeling) remain. The article fails on Criterion 1.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Criterion 2[edit]

  2. Verifiable with no original research:
    3. (a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
    (b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose);[2] and
    (c) it contains no original research.
    References I will be checking all the references and each numbered comment below is related to the ref's number as it existed at this time. The order in the article may change from this numbering as refs get moved, added or deleted.
    • Preliminary comments: all refs including newspapers should have a publisher. Newspapers and other works are generally italicised but publishers are not. Use dmy dates for date, archive date and retrieved date. Use correct cite template for each, common ones are {{Cite web}} {{Cite news}} {{Cite book}} and {{Cite journal}} (Note capital on Cite). Change {{reflist|2}} to {{Reflist|colwidth=20em}}. This is a browser friendly version of multiple columns: depending on your browser you may see no real difference.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:30, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    1. So much information before we get to first reference. The previous four sentences are not covered by the Australian charts portal: it only verifies the last phrase of the fourth sentence. For the ref itself, use Cite web (note capital on Cite), fix: title, work. Information in the first paragraph may be contradictory. When and where did Howling Bells actually form? Was it Sydney in late 2003 or was it in 2004? Did they form in London after they arrived there? This needs to be clarified and nailed by reliable sources.
    2. Find publisher. Fix work. This ref muddies the time-line, it does not specify that Waikiki disbanded in late 2003, it claims that Juanita Stein was the impetus for the change in both band and country. It does not support claim that they were writing for a third album.
    3. Cite news. newspaper not work. Fact check: this ref tells us that Waikiki went to London in 2004 and became Howling Bells there. Not sure whether Picchio joined while in London to replace Brandon. Ref supports Juanita's first direct quote in box. In the quote box, I'd change 'her band' to 'previous band'. Neither [2] nor [3] tells us that Waikiki toured NZ, when Picchio joined or that Juanita played bass guitar then rhythm.
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Many refs need to be improved as indicated in introductory comments. As an example: <ref name="rpfoz">{{Cite news|url=http://www.repeatfanzine.co.uk/interviews/howling%20bells%2006.htm|title=Howling Bells Live @ Oxford Zodiac|last=Bateman|first=Steve|date=20 May 2006|newspaper=Repeat|publisher=repeatfanzine.co.uk|accessdate=11 March 2011}}</ref> All the other refs without correct newspaper/work or publisher and other details need to be fixed. Fact check: Gomez not mentioned here. If verified then disambiguate Gomez. At second use: Hendrix not mentioned.
    3. Use Cite video. Give time at which information occurs. Interviewer? Before current publisher put Triple J, after it put (ABC) as its acronym. Fact check: the phrase "only sent them to him" implies no other producers were sent demos. This claim is not supported by this or other sources. Claims re: Picchio phone-seller and return to Aus are supported. Note: this source further confuses the time-line/site of formation.
    4. Wikilink publisher 1st time. At 1st use: Is this a direct quote/close paraphrasing of Joel? Note that Juanita says a few lines along that "We spent five nights a week going out and seeing new bands" which puts doubt on the living in poverty claim even if Joel said so. At 2nd use: Joel's quote is essentially paraphrased in text nearby and thus overly repetitive.
    5. Fix this ref including archiveurl, archivedate as well as previous comments.
    6. Use the single page url. Consider WP:BLP and long-term publication by wikipedia of this claim even if Joel said something similar: Was the stealing/theft recorded as conviction(s) by official authorities? Were all members of the band involved? The article implies they were stealing for 8 to 10 months and were still stealing after they found work.
    7. Cite video. Use a direct url. Give time, interviewer (wikilink). Fix title. Supply acronym for publisher.
    8. Fix per previous.
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:48, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Fix per previous, including title. I don't find the source just a general/intro ad: give direct url. Does this cover previous sentence too? No mention of studio or that tone of this album was affected by delay or British winter.
    3. Dead link?
    4. Written in Feb 2006, it does not verify release as May. Fix archiveurl, archivedate. Better ref needed for release date.
    5. Specific url needed. Fix title. As it stands does not verify any release information.
    6. Fix per previous. Supports.
    7. Fix per previous. Wikilink correct author. Supports direct quote.
    8. Fix. Chart position not supported. Supports fast selling.
    9. Fix. Supply all authors, wikilink any with article. Only supports DiS list not all of statement.
    10. Fix. For a direct quote give her words without order change, probably only need second sentence with [This album] at start. In quote box fix work title.
    11. Fix. Does this ref cover all three sentences? Fact check: year of sign to label, several studios, Moby, struggle working with. These aren't supported.
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:48, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Fix per previous. Use Cite video. Give time(s), interviewer. I'll fact check after time(s) provided.
    3. Fix per previous. Italics for alb name in title. Direct quote supported.
    4. Fix. Supported.
    5. Fix. De-link previously linked. Supported.
    6. Fix ref. Top 50 > Top 30 supported. Note: non-breakable space needed.
    7. Not reliable for UK charting. See WP:GOODCHARTS and try αCharts.us
    8. Fix. Wikilink author. Suports band of week but need a ref for Martin's recommendation.
    9. Cite news. Fix. Publisher. Find other author(s).
    10. Publisher.
    11. Same ref as [11]? Can't find anything on third album, need better ref.
    12. Fix ref. Can't see whether Birdie is first, last or nick name. publisher = Colin Rankin. Supports quote.
    13. Supports two new songs and direct quote.
    14. Give full title. Supports claims.
    15. Fix. Adjust title, work. At 1st use: no mention of those influences. At 2nd use: confirms Gander but not his band.
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:46, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Cite video. Fix per previous. Give time. Wikilink interviewer. Confirms claim.
    3. Fix. Confirms claim. Publisher.
    4. Fix. Check title. At 1st use: confirms Mingus. No ref for McCartney? 2nd use: confirms born in Rome.
    5. Fix. Supports claim of mum as actress. More needed for previous 2 sentences and rest of the 1st paragraph. Direct quote not supported.
    6. Fix. Cite video. Give time, interviewer (wikilink). Supports pilot's licence but not previous material from that paragraph. More ref(s) needed.
    7. Specific url needed. Can't find which one it is and can't check.
    8. Fix. Claim supported.
    9. Fix. work. Adjust title. Claims supported.
    10. Possible conflict of interest! Is the poster, 'Mattchew', on this website the same as wiki user Mattchewbaca proposing the article for GAN and now quoting this website? In any case, a fansite/message board is hardly independently reliable for gig numbers and venues. Information in 1st paragraph not supported.
    11. Is this an officially downloaded video? Need a better source.
    12. Discogs not reliable. Get better source.
    13. Looks like a blog site. If so, not reliable.
    14. Voters poll? A more reliable source needed.
    15. Blog? More reliable source needed. Other information not supported.
    16. Fix. Ladygunn is the work/newspaper. Find correct author's name, publisher.
    17. Blog? In any case, Moule not mentioned here?
    18. Fix. Claims supported.
    19. Fix. Claims supported.
    • External links
    1. Just keep Official website. Facebook and fansite/message board not needed here. Such links can be put on the Open Directory Project at dmoz and an external link to there can be put in this article.
    • Original research?
    1. Non-attributed quotes, unverified claims, and paragraphs lacking any in-line citations in the article may be original research.
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:26, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • All existing refs were checked at the time of the review's run-through. Subsequently more refs were added but problems occur with formatting, style and cite clutter. Article fails on Criterion 2.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Criterion 3[edit]

  3. Broad in its coverage:
    4. (a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;[3] and
    (b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
    1. Greater emphasis on the band's musical styles and song writing process is required.
    2. Why have the band changed labels / producers for each album? Why is there a year or longer gap between the recording of an album and its release?
    3. As indicated above, some information in the article is unnecessarily detailed and the article loses its focus. Mostly this occurs in the Notes of interest and Other work sections.
    4. Influences provides little more than a listing of two or three name checks per band and then per individual member. The substance of these influences is not given: how have they affected the band's performance, song writing or musical styles? Conversely, how have Howling Bells influenced other acts?
    5. Insight gives considerable detail of the Steins' background. This should be further summarised, put into the formation section and the remainder left for Juanita's article. How is Picchio's speaking two languages connected to the band's music or song writing? Much of the information on Moule's life on a farm (especially the two middle sentences) can be deleted or summarised further. Its relevance to the band is not clear.
    6. Low Happenings can be further summarised and the condensed information should go into the band's chronology: probably in the Howling Bells (2005-2008).
    7. Touring second paragraph is overly detailed with much information that could be reduced. Much of the band's touring has been described earlier in the article.
    8. Other work Especially the 2nd paragraph, can be further summarised and details saved for her own article.
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Done Good work has occurred with Musical style section containing virtually new content.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Criterion 4[edit]

  4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
    1. Some work toning down phrases and sections to provide greater neutrality has occurred. However, further work is needed. Examples from the influences section are 'a special liking', 'significant importance' and 'legendary drummer'.
    2. Comparison of the 1st album's section with the 2nd album's show bias towards the former in tone.

    Criterion 5[edit]

  5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
    6. [4]
    1. Article is generally stable with further changes per reviewer's suggestions expected.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:04, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Criterion 6[edit]

  6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
    7. [5]
    (a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
    (b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.[6]
  1. Photo supplied for infobox is good, the image is suitably described and captioned.
  2. A sound sample or two (suitably edited) would enhance the article.

shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:04, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Summary
    • Substantial improvement has occurred in many areas, however some Criteria (see above per Criterion) still require further work. Once the problems have been addressed the article can be renominated.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the Manual of Style mainpage, is not required for good articles.
  2. ^ Either parenthetical references or footnotes can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.
  3. ^ This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.
  4. ^ Vandalism reversions, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing), and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of constructive editing should be placed on hold.
  5. ^ Other media, such as video and sound clips, are also covered by this criterion.
  6. ^ The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement. However, if images (or other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Howling_Bells/GA1&oldid=423435779"