Talk:Howling Bells (album)/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:43, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Starting the review[edit]

I will be going through each of the criteria in order. I reserve the right to return to earlier comments/sections and revise/add to them until the review is finished. Unless otherwise indicated, maintain existing wikilinks and formatting. The review process should take about a week. I will allow an additional week for any requested changes to be made before making my decision.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:43, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

General comments As a UK-based Australian band, dates should be in dmy format not mdy and spelling/grammar in British English/Australian English not American English.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:28, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]


A good article is—

    Criterion 1[edit]

  1. Well-written:
    2. (a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and
    (b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.[1]
    Infobox
    1. Released: only earliest release date here. Rest can be included at Release history.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Recorded: where and when?
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Length: use {{Duration|m=42|s=19}}
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Singles list: re-issued singles not needed, can be included in main text, Release history or single's own article if notable enough.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:28, 27 March 2011 (UTC) Lead[reply]
    1. De-link common terms: UK (first appearance should be styled as United Kingdom), Australia, England.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Nelson's work for Coldplay & Gomez into the main text not here.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. produced ... by ... producer: repetitive. Trim.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Parr Street Studios, Liverpool, England into Infobox (note change of ; to ,). Only need Parr Street Studios, Liverpool in Lead.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. 2005 in Infobox.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Change Upon its release the album was into It was Concise.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. it would go on to appear for two weeks on the UK Albums Chart where it would peak at number 92 > it peaked in the Top 100 of the UK Albums Chart Concise. Note: unbreakable space between Top and 100.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. at the time was officially declared > was, at the time,
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. It was one of nine albums selected as a finalist out of two hundred nominated for the 2006 > It was one of nine finalists from two hundred nominees for the 2006
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    10. in the end it would lose out to Moo, You Bloody Choir by Augie March. > eventual winner was Moo, You Bloody Choir by Augie March.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    11. The album was recognized by seven different publications for their "Album of the Year" lists, > It appeared on "Album of the Year" lists of seven different publications,
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    12. and even though it was released in 2006 it made its way onto a "Top Albums of 2000-2005" list. > and though released in 2006 it was selected on a "Top Albums of 2000-2005" list.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    13. The 12 track set features a wide array of styles, from rock and pop to country to folk and blues. > The 12-track set features a wide array of music styles: rock, pop, country, folk and blues. De-link rock and country: common terms in a music article.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:53, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Don't use the Done template: it'll take up too much room in this review. Use a simple Done instead.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:44, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Background
    1. More work needed for conciseness and clarity. e.g. Lyrically, the songs that comprise the album were for the most part written by Juanita[2][5][6] and are the subjects of her own intimately involved interpersonal relationships that she maintained at the time. > Most lyrics on Howling Bells were written by Juanita Stein with the subjects centring on her own interpersonal relationships.[2][5][6] Wikilink Juanita Stein, first appearance in Main text. Refer to her as Juanita thereafter. There are other instances on imprecision and confusion in this (and other) section(s).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. centring
      3. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      4. More expression work, e.g. This was where they would spend the next month creating demos for the tracks that would constitute the debut album.[6][10] > They spent a month creating demo tracks for the album.[6][10]
      5. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      6. "I'm Not Afraid", the last track to be included on the album is a cover of a song that was written by Joel and Juanita's father Peter Stein, who likewise is a songwriter and musician.[6][12] > "I'm Not Afraid", the last track, was written by Peter Stein – Joel and Juanita's father – who is also a songwriter and musician.[6][12] Brevity.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:30, 29 March 2011 (UTC) I stuffed up! Deleted extraneous comma after the en dash: sorry.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:03, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      7. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Are all three refs needed there? Use best one or two. Do likewise for any other ref clutter (three or more in same place/section) or use cite bundling.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Some of the songs were derived from a separation with one individual while conversely lyrics for other songs came from a relationship that was just starting to blossom.[7][8] > Some lyrics dealt with her loss by ending a relationship while others described a new one forming.[7][8]
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. De-link: music, country, house, mountains, Victoria, Melbourne, harmonious/harmony, manager, musical instrument/instruments, clothes, fixed-wing aircraft/flight, London. All are common terms.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Re-write sentences to reduce excessive jargon/clichés e.g. Equipped with material, they scouted for a place to woodshed their newly created work. > The group searched for a venue to finish their song writing.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Wikilink first appearance of Ken Nelson, refer to him as Nelson thereafter.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. "he had heard his manager quickly responded back stating that he would be interested in working" Clarify and make it concise.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. Glenn, Joel and Brendan would arrange Who are these guys? To a casual reader they have no idea: this is their first mention in the Main text. Clarify.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. Expand wikilink on tracking to cover the phrase: instrument tracking.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    10. So, with not a lot more than their instruments of choice and the clothes on their back they caught a flight Trim, reduce clichés. With little financial support they relocated
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    11. Similar work is required on the next two sentences.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Recording
    1. More work for concise and clear. Sample: In early 2005 the band made their way into Parr Street Studios, Liverpool to record their debut album, > In early 2005 the band started recording Howling Bells at Parr Street Studios, Liverpool.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. some of Coldplay's > Some of Coldplay's
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. still occupied parts of the facility when Howling Bells first entered the workspace.[12] > remained when Howling Bells entered the facility.[12]
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Delete: a time frame of between Padding.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. De-link: months, vocal, lights, relax, songs, songwriter, musician.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Juanita was very apprehensive about being watched while she sang the words to her songs given the deep personal significance attributed to them. she would have them turn off all the lights in the studio in order for her to relax and be able to sing. Trim and combine into a single shorter sentence. Not wanting to feel observed, when recording her vocals, Juanita had the studio lights turned off.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. Spelling: de-emphasising.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. The band were highly content with > The band acknowledged
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. on occasion they may have gotten a little too overzealous with. > they were overzealous with.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    10. Next two sentences need further clarity and trimming.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    11. Remove italics from genre and root.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    12. Last sentence on song writing fits better in earlier section on Background where lyrics are described. It also needs some trimming and clarification. e.g. Did Peter record his own version of the song? If not, cover version is imprecise.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:37, 28 March 2011 (UTC) Singles[reply]
    1. De-link common terms.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Start with Howling Bells was preceded
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Month and year of each single's first release per "Low Happening" (December 2005), "Wishing Stone" (February 2006), and "Blessed Night" (May).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. A summary of the non-notable charting of these singles should replace the unnecessary detail of phrases like would appear for two weeks and peak at number 105. After the previous introductory sentence you could have, Four singles appeared on the UK Singles Chart but none reached the Top 100. Specific post-100 numbering could be placed in a singles chart in Charting subsection below.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. named it as number 47 track of the year in 2006, in their annual presentation of the year's best songs.[23] > placed it in the top 50 of the year's best songs of 2006.[23] Brevity, note non-breakable space between top and 50.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Check your use of tense in this section. Many of the 'would' or 'would be' can be converted to was or just past tense of the related verb. Instead of 'being directed' just 'directed'.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. Delete last sentence it should be incorporated in earlier note 3.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:05, 29 March 2011 (UTC) Artwork[reply]
    1. De-link artwork. Fix expression: be clear and concise, avoid flowery words or padding. Spelling: colour.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Re-pipe link & add a hyphen: [[Finns|Finnish]]-born
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Mikko Rantanen is Rantanen after first mention not Mikko.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. What is a 'value spectrum'? Is this a jargon term? If so convert and if not, find a wikilink.
      1. Done – I was just using synonyms of color and range, trying to avoid repeating the word, color. Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. The 'opposite cover'? Is this the back cover, an alternate cover, under tray picture or on the inner booklet? Clarify.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Is 2nd ¶ quoted/paraphrased from somewhere?
      1. I was describing it. Assumed the section needed expanded to pass GA. I'll take this down if it's not needed. Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. This may present problems per Criterion 2(c)
    Release and reception
    1. Not much here about its release. This section is almost entirely reception.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. More work needed here for expression as per previous comments and examples.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. "More reviews are as follows:" This sounds like it should be an External link.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Are there any negative reviews?
      1. LOL, I haven't found any. Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. This may present problems per Criterion 4.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:03, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      3. Done – I added two less favorable reviews. Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Tracklisting
    1. Spelling: Track listing
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 03:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Check Template:Track listing for more ideas.
    3. MoS: "A Ballad for the Bleeding Hearts", note content should be incorporated in the Template per #2.
      1. I don't understand this. Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. Sorry about that. The MoS relates to Manualof Style and specifically that "A Ballad For the Bleeding Hearts" is styled as "A Ballad for the Bleeding Hearts".
      3. The second part relates to the Note which is currently placed at bottom of this section and indicates "I'm Afraid Not" was written by Peter. The Track listing template referred to (see #2 above) has a place for such information.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:38, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        1. I've tried to fix this.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:08, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        2. Looks good. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Personnel
    1. Change 5th level subHeads into simple bolded terms. e.g. =====Howling Bells===== > Howling Bells members Reduces profussion of [edit] tabs.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Replace hyphens with spaced en dashes. e.g. *[[Juanita Stein]] – [[singing|vocals]], [[rhythm guitar]] Note: Non-breakable space before the en dash, I added a pipe for vocals.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Replace note regarding Album notes with an actual reference.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. leave Bass guitar as bass guitar not bass.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Change note regarding additional keyboards, noises and harmonies with an explanatory note per MoS (footnotes). In the footnote use their full names.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:06, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      1. I'm going to need help with this. Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. I've had a go at this. You'll have to do a similar note for the accolades.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:08, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      3. Done – Thanks. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. recording engineer wikilinked at 1st appearance not second.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Release History/Charts/Accolades
    1. Change section heading. Release history, charts and accolades or similar.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Don't use 5th level subHeads, bolded terms would work better to reduce edit clutters.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Change Date (2006) to Date. Change contents to suit.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. MoS: names of "Singles". Fix column width for Position & change its title to Peak position.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Change Albums last column to Peak position.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. I can't see why accolades are split into two tables.
      1. I have no problem with changing it, I just thought it looked kinda funky, because "UK" and "Album of the Year" doesn't line up. Example below. Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Country Accolade (2006) Provider Ranking
    UK Album of the Year musicOMH 2
    Sound Generator 2
    Drowned in Sound 3
    NME 11
    Playlouder 49
    The Guardian 50
    The Sun 60
    Top Albums (2000-2005) Drowned in Sound 59
    AUS Australian Music Prize AMP 2 – 9
        1. Put Countries in alphabetical order. AMP Ranking 2–9 (see next comment). Get DiS list's correct name & time span (see ref checking #[6])shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:38, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        2. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. MoS: don't wikilink common countries, accolades in plain text, are all these actual publications? Heading should be Provider. Any that are publications should be italicised. Rank > Ranking. 2 - 9 > 2–9
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Change note to footnote per above.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:03, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • A lot of improvement has been made. Generally the expression is more clear and concise, however pockets of imprecision remain. After providing numerous examples of such material from the article – which were generally fixed – I have allowed a week for others that remained to be picked up and modified but this has not been adequately addressed. Further samples of poor expression include:
    1. "released through Bella Union in the United Kingdom on 8 May 2006 and Liberation in Australia on 1 July 2006".
    2. "The album was a finalist for the 2006 Australian Music Prize (AMP) Award, and a long–list nominee for the 2006 Shortlist Music Prize".
    3. "they democratically agreed that's how they wanted their album to sound"
    4. "Nelson soon responded back stating that he would be interested in working with them".
    5. "A whole eight to ten months went by since they first arrived, but Nelson eventually contacted them stating that he would soon be ready to record".
    • As for style, there are still problems with:
    1. Song titles without talking marks.
    2. "A Ballad For the Bleeding Hearts" remains incorrectly styled.
      1. I still don't understand this. Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Some months are given as abbreviations.

    Criterion 2[edit]

  2. Verifiable with no original research:
    3. (a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
    (b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose);[2] and
    (c) it contains no original research.
    References I will be checking all the references and each numbered comment below is related to the ref's number as it existed at this time. The order in the article may change from this numbering as refs get moved, added or deleted.
    • Preliminary comments: all refs including newspapers should have a publisher. Newspapers and other works are generally italicised but publishers are not. Use dmy dates for date, archive date and retrieved date. Use correct cite template for each, common ones are {{Cite web}} {{Cite news}} {{Cite book}} and {{Cite journal}} (Note capital on Cite). Change {{reflist|2}} to {{Reflist|colwidth=20em}}. This is a browser friendly version of multiple columns: depending on your browser you may see no real difference.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:51, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Insert/change to Cite news|url=http://www.dbmagazine.com.au/389/iv-HowlingBells.shtml|title=The Howling Bells|last=Bertok|first=Nina|date=5–19 July 2006|newspaper=dB Magazine|publisher=dbmagazine.com.au|issue=389|accessdate=22 Feb 2011 Verifies critically acclaimed and fastest selling single per label in Lead. Confirms direct quote in Main text. Does not mention charting into Top 100. Hopefully this is verified by a reliable source later.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Use Cite news. Insert/change to newspaper=Repeat|publisher=repeatfanzine.co.uk No additional confirmation at Lead. Confirms story about Juanita finding his artwork etc.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Does not confirm top nine finalist: only top 25, does not give 200 nominees, does not give winner. Need a better ref.
      1. Top nine confirmed. Winner confirmed. Do you need the full list or will just mention of the number work? Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Use Cite web. Additional authors needed, its not just Mike Diver (he writes the intro) but others have contributed to the list. I don't see the list referred to as Top Albums of 2000–2005. The list of 66 albums was made for DiS's sixth anniversary and includes releases that span its existence 2000–2006 which covers seven years. Other albums released in 2006 make their list. Wikilink author(s) (if they have own article), Drowned in Sound.
      1. Authors added but don't know how to Wikilink the author properly. I got the title 2000–2005 from Acclaimed Music. I just shortened it to make it fit into the table. www.acclaimedmusic.net (search Howling Bells). Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      2. Change/insert title=DiS is 6! Our 66, part 1|last1=Driver|first1=Mike Diver|authorlink1=Mike Driver| Check the other authors and if they have an article add in authorlinkn where n is their number in order. Note that I've changed the title slightly.
      3. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      4. As for Acclaimed Music why not give the precise url? Users shouldn't have to search around for information if a direct link can be found. Try www.acclaimedmusic.net/Current/A3157.htm but remember that this was sourced from a forum where anyone can post anything and the title used for an accolade is not necessarily correct. Specifically here, the time span according to DiS's own description is from 2000 to 2006 not 2000–2005. There is no error in having Howling Bells in their list if it was released before their 6th anniversary. Information in the article will have to be changed accordingly.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:27, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      5. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Use Cite news. Insert/change title=We Meet the Howling Bells|last=Cohen|first=Ben|date=31 Mar 2009|newspaper=The Collective Review|publisher=The 5th Medium Ltd Lyrics written by Juanita were personal, but does not fully support claim of her writing most of the lyrics.
      1. Done Added ref to support claim of Juanita as main songwriter. Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. What makes Miwsig a WP:Reliable source? Claim that Juanita wrote most of the lyrics needs better support.
      1. Done Added ref to support claim of Juanita as main songwriter. Mattchewbaca (meow) 02:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:19, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Use Cite news. Change work to newspaper. Wikilink Fairfax Media first time in refs. Verifies claims.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Cite web. Not sure of year. Change title: On the Couch with Howling Bells. Does not verify claims: deals mostly with 2nd album and note that the Artist biography is not by Sandy Tan. Ref should be deleted or used elsewhere.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Cite web. Check title. archivedate. archiveurl.
      1. Done – Can you look at this? I can't seem to get it "Original" to link. Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Cite news. Change work to newspaper. publisher=Independent Print Limited ([[Alexander Lebedev]], [[Evgeny Lebedev]]) Supports claims. Note also supports claim that Juanita writes most of the lyrics for this album and can replace Miwsig ref [6].
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Use Cite video. format? time? (in clip where information occurs). Check title, publisher and people (interviewer, producer). For some of these investigate last 4 s of part 4. Note that VTap and Veveo display the video(s) but are not the publisher.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. Cite web. Does not confirm that he wrote the song or that he is their father. Confirms he performed it.
      1. Done – Added confirming ref. Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. dab Ken Nelson by fixing pipe. Use Cite web, fix the url: url=http://www.coldplay.com/post_popnews.php?id=394 rather than leaving it to the user to figure it out. insert: work=Coldplay official website
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:32, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Cite news. de-link Fairfax Media, already linked at [7]. Supports claims regarding Nelson's interest and Coldplay's equipment.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Cite web. Check date of article it's not same as archivedate. archiveurl. Is this a fansite? If so, it may not be reliable. Note: Ken Nelson is referred to as Ken Russell. Claims are not well supported by this ref: better one needed.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. What makes Guttersnipe reliable? If it is, use Cite news with newspaper=Guttersnipe News
      1. Done – I took it down, but it's a legitimate editorial website. Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Cite news. Use newspaper not work and don't put italics (it does it for you). Supports claim of jobs while waiting. Ref [16] not needed and is less reliable so delete it.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Cite news. Use newspaper not work, let plate put italics. archivedate. archiveurl. Check date: I see July 2006 (don't put date in brackets: this is done automatically): you may have to go back and change previous refs.
      1. Done – Again, can you check this one? I can't seem to figure out "original link". Mattchewbaca (meow) 04:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:54, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • You've mangled one of the urls, I've also fixed the Cite news, newspaper and dates: <ref name="enp">{{Cite news |url= http://www.glovebox.com.au/stories/howlingbellsjuly06.htm |title=Reaching the emotional depths – An interview with Howling Bells |date=July 2006 |newspaper=The Electric Newspaper |publisher=Glovebox |archiveurl=http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20091008104342/http://www.glovebox.com.au/stories/howlingbellsjuly06.htm |archivedate=8 October 2009 |accessdate=31 March 2011 }}</ref> Remember to check all of your archived refs and fix them too.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:27, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      1. Done – Thanks. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Use Cite video per [11] above. Wikilink interviewer. Check publisher.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Not a reliable source for UK charting. See Sourcing guide for approved sources.
      1. Is there another source that I can use? Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Cite video. More work needed here. Josh Logue is the director not author. No evidence that it was filmed at Enmore Theatre.
      1. Done – Added ref confirming Enmore Theatre. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Is this an officially released video? Too many YouTube videos breach copyright. No evidence of Berlin.
      1. Done – Yes, it's an official video. I've added a reference confirming a video was shot there. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. I get hi-jacked. Looks like a dead one.
      1. Done – That's a shame. All these videos were up just a few months ago. I added ref confirming director. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. Ditto.
      1. Done – I added ref confirming director. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. Needs some work: <ref name="nme3">{{Cite news |url= http://www.nme.com/reviews/tracks/oftheyear |title=''NME'' Tracks of the Year |newspaper=[[NME]] |publisher=[[IPC Media]] ([[Time Inc.]]) |date=2007 |accessdate=31 March 2011 }} Note: User required to click on year tab at left for 2006 or 2007 listings.</ref>
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:55, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. I get a page loading problem and cannot fully check this site. Will try again later. Tried again, it loaded more but still not easy to use. Only confirms director's name not other information claimed.
      1. Done – Added refs confirming info. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Don't see anything on Howling Bells, "Broken Bones" or Adam Jones. Need a better ref.
      1. Done – I took the info down for the time being. Just a few months ago the video and all info was on the site. Hopefully they will put it back. Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Cite web. Change work=</i>30gms<i> Note: no space between 30 and gms.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Cite video, see [19] but don't wikilink interviewer. Supports story/claims given.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Check rating. Replace ref with <ref name="Allmusic">{{Cite web |last=DiGravina |first=Tim |url={{Allmusic|class=album|id=howling-bells-r843016/review|pure_url=yes}} |title= ''Howling Bells'' - Howling Bells |work=</i>[[Allmusic]]<i> |publisher=[[Rovi Corporation]] |date=13 June 2006 |accessdate=31 March 2011}}</ref>
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. De-link Drowned in Sound previously linked at [4]. Fix title=Releases / Howling Bells – ''Howling Bells''
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. Wikilink work. Fix title (similar to previous) 2nd Howling Bells is italics.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. Work? Fix title (similar to previous).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    10. Newspaper can stay NME as before but no wikilink here. Also de-link publisher. Wikilink author (get the right one).
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:08, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Cite web. Change [ to ( and ] to ) in title. Make 2nd Howling Bells.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Fix work, archiveurl, archivedate, title. Change the first direct quote: Mackay stresses too by using italics.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ref needed for Soundgenerator's Rating.
      1. Done – I couldn't find it archived so I removed it. Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Cite web. Publisher?
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Fix title. Direct quote supported.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Cite web. Fix title, work.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Cite web. Fix title, work.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    7. Fix title, archiveurl, archivedate.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    8. Cite news. Fix title, newspaper, issue no.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    9. Cite web. Use specific url direct to the page on the album's releases. Check date. This can be used for [42] also.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    10. Cite web. De-link previously linked. Fix work.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:40, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Cite web. Fix title, work. Verifies clalims.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Cite news, work to newspaper. Supply direct url or Note similar to [25]
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Cite news, work to newspaper. Check author(s). Put compiler as first author.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    5. Cite news, work to newspaper. Fix work, publisher. Supports claim.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    6. Cite web, fix accessdate.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:11, 1 April 2011 (UTC) Original research?[reply]
    1. Recording section: last two sentences read like someone's opinion.
      1. Done – Removed last two sentences. Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Singles: last sentence: not New Zealand too?
      1. Done – It was rumored that "Broken Bones" was released as a single in Australia, that's why they made a video for it. Though, I've never seen evidence to support it. I've removed it as a single. Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    3. Artwork: whole last paragraph includes interpretive commentary/opinion.
      1. Done – Removed paragraph. Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    4. Track listing: claims about the songs' writers should be nailed by a reliable source; try APRA or ASCAP search engine(s).
      1. Done – I tried those but couldn't find anything. I've used Discogs as a reference. Mattchewbaca (meow) 23:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:40, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Not done. Discogs is not reliable and, in this case, the CD cover info is not reliable either. I've just finished searching via APRA and found all 12 songs: 7 are completely composed (words and music) by Juanita alone, 3 with Joel, 1 with Picchio, and the last completely by Peter. None of the songs are written by the whole band. You've got more work to do to ref all this. The attribution at the top should delete both all_lyrics and all_music lines and change to | all_composed = [[Juanita Stein]] except where shown with individual song refs in a Note to reduce clutter. Then the exception songs are to be individually cited within the rest of the table.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:11, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 00:33, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Read Preliminary comments above. Cite over cite in ref templates but this was not addressed in most cases (I have subsequently changed these). Reflist not changed.
    1. As far as the reflist goes, I don't mind using {{Reflist|colwidth=30em}} but, I myself am not going to include {{Reflist|colwidth=20em}}. Very few articles use this and I can understand why. Personally, I don't grasp why this is even an issue, considering its relevance is not addressed under the criteria for a good article. It should probably be presented on the articles' discussion pages and general consensus will determine what should be used. Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • All existing refs were checked and numerous required further work. Additional refs were subsequently added and too many still have problems (samples only):
    1. "We Meet The Howling Bells" The Collective Review
    3. Axle Whitehead
    4. "A&R NEWSLETTER VOL. LXXIV"
    6. Liberation Music
    8. Diver, Mike
    • Some sections/paragraphs now have too many refs and disrupt smooth reading. Ref clutter should be reduced, including judicious use of a cite bundling Note. e.g. 1st ¶ in Promotion, release and reception: I count some 19 refs including a single sentence with 7.
    • Possible OR has been removed or verified.

    Criterion 3[edit]

  3. Broad in its coverage:
    4. (a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;[3] and
    (b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
    1. Considering they're categorised as an Australian band, why no description of (non-)charting there. The only Australian accolade mentioned is the AMP. How did they get noticed?
    2. Some of the content is too detailed and/or not directly relevant to this album. Example of such material are: The group searched for a venue to finish their song writing. and which would turn out to be Coldplay's third straight platinum-selling album.
    3. Tour(s) to support the album? Other than attendance at shows little is given on any band tours.
    4. Following album? Other than the infobox, its not even mentioned! A brief description helps the reader place Howling Bells in context of the band's history/development.
    5. US release?
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 00:33, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:04, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Article is more focused.
    • Still no information on its US release: 13 June 2006 on Bellaire label. Article from its Allmusic review provides confirmation. This conflicts with "It was also the first time the band obtained a release in North America," when talking about Radio Wars in 2008. (This also concerns Criterion 2).
    1. There was no US release. That is an erroneous admission by Allmusic. Mattchewbaca (meow) 22:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Criterion 4[edit]

  4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
    1. Some previously existing contentious phrases have been made more neutral or removed. Critical reviews which include representative non-positive comments have been added. More is needed on non-charting in Australia of both the album and its related singles.
      1. Done Mattchewbaca (meow) 00:33, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:43, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Criterion 5[edit]

  5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
    6. [4]
    1. Article is stable with further changes based on reviewer's suggestions are still expected.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:43, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    Criterion 6[edit]

  6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
    7. [5]
    (a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
    (b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.[6]
  1. Album cover image is supplied but File:Howlingbellsalbum.jpg does not provide full details of its Fair use for non-free media. Specifically, details on its designer/creator are missing.
  2. A representative audio sample (suitably edited) would enhance the article.

shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:43, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Neither of the above have been addressed.
  • Summary
    • Considerable improvement to the article has occurred during this review but problems remain as indicated per Criterion above. Unfortunately the article has failed GAN at this time. Once these problems are addressed you are encouraged to renominate this article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:52, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the Manual of Style mainpage, is not required for good articles.
  2. ^ Either parenthetical references or footnotes can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.
  3. ^ This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.
  4. ^ Vandalism reversions, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing), and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of constructive editing should be placed on hold.
  5. ^ Other media, such as video and sound clips, are also covered by this criterion.
  6. ^ The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement. However, if images (or other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.
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