Talk:Hungarian Justice and Life Party
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Untitled[edit]
I moved the following from the main page - as it is realy talk.
- the MIÉP is not the Hungarian "extreme" right party. it is just the frightening of the hungarian socialist party(MSzP), which is the legal successor of the Hungarian Communist Party(MSzMP), the owner of the red-terror till the system-changing. the MIÉP is about a semi-extrem right party, and its program is so far from for example Le Pen's (Fr) extreme right party. in Hungary you can't speak about nationalism, or "extreme" right parties, because in Hungary both the "nation" and nationalism mean something else. to be hungarian is just the community of fate.
- by: szil
- Iagree. Gubbubu 10:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
If this is correct then we need to change the main page (it needs expanding anyway). Andreww 00:18, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
Consensus seems to be that the party is extreme right, although it describes itself as neither left nor right. As this is fairly common amongst neo-Fascist and Third Positionist parties in Europe, I would argue that the designation as extreme right is legitimate Keresaspa 12:50, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
-The MIÉP is not an extreme right party but it never identified itself as not being right. The name "Harmadik Oldal" (Third Positionist if you like that translation) simply refers to one of the political movements in Hungary in the 1930's, which was against the regime but always been right-sided. And finally, as it is fairly common amongst post- and ex-communists parties in Europe, that they often describe any kind of rigth-sided parties as if they were fascists, nazis or enemies of the democratic system...
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.6.243.100 (talk • contribs) 12:14, 27 March 2006
Goals[edit]
I also removed this from the article:
One of the goals of the MIÉP is to regain the territories lost in the Treaty of Trianon back in 1920 to several countries in its vicinity - see picture on the left, with Hungary's original territory in pink.
The reason for deleting this is that simple fact that it is not true. Have you found it in the official programme of the party or elsewhere??
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.6.243.100 (talk • contribs) 12:53, 27 March 2006
I have seen it on their poster in Szeged at a villamos stop where they enumerated their goals. This was one of them
160.114.126.82 14:32, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, as far as I know, the party's slogan is still "to remain, to augment, to recover". So what meaning do you think "recover" has?....
85.248.66.2 21:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Populist[edit]
>>The new political formation has been registered under the name the "Third Way" (Harmadik Út) and it harbours nationalist and populist goals,<<
- what does it means "populist goals"? Who says it? Gubbubu 10:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
The quoted sentence needs rewording, but several sources refer to MIÉP and its leader Csurka, as a populist. Just one example from the BBC:
- He is a populist nationalist, whose tax-the-rich, anti-globalization, anti-Nato and anti-EU policies are not unlike those of the far-left Workers Party of Gyula Thuermer. BBC
-- nyenyec ☎ 21:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
if they were populists, would they receive less than 4% of the votes? No, maaaan. The problem is, they are NOT POPULISTS AT ALL, they're always saying the same since a decade, and without being politically smart, they never achieve their goals, despite their goals are quite justifyable.
BTW, MIÉP were the only party that included the goals of maintainable growth into their program in 2002.
--80.98.160.95 21:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Dodgy?![edit]
Dodgy?! That's encylopedic! --82.33.11.170 18:12, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Reading between the lines[edit]
I do not mean to troll, but we are missing the point. Understanding any party from its party program or from listening to its readers is a futile. You need to read between the lines of their party program or platform. For the casual reader of MIEP's program very few statements, if any, should raise red (no pun intended) flags. But analyzing the differences how particularly sensitive areas in Hungarian politics and in the everyday debate are addressed, it becomes evident that the party builds its beliefs on a nationalistic, hungarocentric, xenophobic, and clearly populist ideology. The right combination of anticommunism and antisemitism coupled with nationalism are the main pillars of Central and Eastern European populist ideology.
Case in point. I run a simple electronic translation from Hungarian to English of two successive statements in the MIEP party program and did some - hopefully minor - linguistic adjustments to make the language somewhat clearer. Hungarian language is such an easy language to understand ... The MIE program is at http://www.miep.hu/al/kiskate.html, and here are the statements...
"Is MIEP a fringe party? According to its political rivals, MIEP is a far-right, neo-nazi, chauvinistic, nationalistic, and anti-semitic, excluding, anti-gypsy party. Gyula Horn said: "this is the party of nuts". There is absolutely no truth to the statement: the conservative and national ideas have already been planted 100 years ago against the "progressive" and the "modernist" communistic and liberal political powers.
"IS MIEP a Christian democratic party? Yes, and unequivocally so. Both within and outside the Parliament, MIEP has closely followed the rules of the constitutional democracy; the teachings of the Christ are considered the fundamental norm and without them no one can live freely and peacefully. MIÉP is a Christian democratic party poignantly opposing any such Endeavour that conflicts with these societal core values, and on behalf of all men and society, MIEP rejects fully both individualism and pluralism as being uniformly antisocial and anti-humanistic. Anarchy, pathological deviations and the acceptance of the "dissimilarity" of individuals fails to harmonize with democracy or Christian ethics."
I would argue that this is a party on the right, deeply rooted against any social progress, heavily borrowing the "fundamentalist" ideology of the evangelical right of the GOP (in the US) and extremely populist. Later in the program, MIEP makes some word choices that can be seen as purposefully inflammatory. MIEP spends considerable time explaining why they respect people, except for those that are "different". In Hungarian common parlance gays and gypsies are always different. Moreover, MIEP embraces foreigners as long as they are hardworking or tourists brining well-needed foreign capital. MIEP hates the United States and the "American way of life", and it believes that all evil came from Trianon and/or the United States. This anti-americanism is rather hypocritical, particularly when considering their embrace of the Republican ideology. While MIEP does not anymore argue for Trianons' repeal, MIEP believes that Hungary should work to create a strong, independent, Christian Hungary for all who are Hungarian. And all who are HUngarian live in the pre-Trianon Hungary.
And the truth is, as always, in the eyes of the beholder. These are my 5 cents or approximately 11 forints. --209.23.214.244 20:20, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I really don't seem to understand that if MIÉP is a populist party, then how is it that it didn't made it even to the parliament.... --85.248.66.2 21:51, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Disputed neutrality rationale?[edit]
Why is the tag up? -- nyenyec ☎ 04:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
reason for commenting out The Times link[edit]
That article is written as if MIÉP were leading the 2006 protests in Hungary which is wrong, although supporters of MIÉP are higher represented in that mob than in the whole country.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Torzsmokus (talk • contribs)
The point of including the link is because it gives a good overview about MIEP's views, not because what it writes about the protests. Anyway, if you read it carefully you see that it acknowledges that Fidesz supporters count for the bulk of the protestors.
It doesn't say that MIÉP was leading the protests.
-- nyenyec ☎ 06:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Anti-Semitism[edit]
I added some information about the party's connection to Anti-Semitism. I think it's important for people to know a more fair and balanced description about political parties. (Eddie 21:10, 1 December 2006 (UTC))