Talk:Hyperpop

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Hyperpop in pop culture[edit]

I realize the article already has a section for "Popularity" of Hyperpop, but there's quite a lack of recent Hyperpop coverage in popular culture in the Wiki article. For example, we have a few sources to cite about popular Hyperpop artists breaking into mainstream popular culture, like ericdoa[1] and Laura Les[2] both being featured in the TV Show Euphoria, which averages 16.3 million viewers in current episodes[3] (2022). Additionally, I think we could site the Lollapalooza 2022 lineup[4] featuring 6 "Hyperpop adjacent" artists (Charli XCX, 100 Gecs, Midwxst, ericdoa, Underscores, Prentiss, Glaive). TrumanBrown

Hyperpop umbrella of genres[edit]

I see that Digicore genre simply redirects to Hyperpop, and that the article simply says that Hyperpop is also known as digicore. I think it would be helpful to explain how the genres are either different or list popular artists that are commonly categorized under the umbrella of genres. Here are some sources I am thinking about adding.
Digicore artists and description[5]
Glitchcore artists and description[6]
Robloxcore artists and description[7]
TrumanBrown

References

  1. ^ "ericdoa Is Living His Best Life on "sad4whattt"". Ones To Watch.
  2. ^ "Every Song From 'Euphoria's Season 2 Episode 2". Variety.
  3. ^ "'Euphoria' Is Now HBO's Second-Most Watched Show Behind 'Game of Thrones'".
  4. ^ "Lollapalooza 2022 Lineup".
  5. ^ "Digicore captures the angst of coming of age during a global pandemic".
  6. ^ "the rise and rise of hyperactive subgenre glitchcore".
  7. ^ "How Roblox Sparked a Chaotic Music Scene".

Artists that Classify as Hyperpop[edit]

I like Kim Petras, but I don't think one could argue that she makes hyperpop — Preceding unsigned comment added by Themaddman (talk • contribs) 02:08, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think that artists such as osquinn should be added to this article. She *is* a giant in the hyperpop community. Hyperpop (talk) 19:17, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Any sources for these claims? Kim Petras is sourced as being called a hyperpop artist.Gagaluv1 (talk) 19:40, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be honest and say that I don't have any sources, and a quick Google search shows a handful of articles that indeed call Kim Petras a hyperpop artist. I was going to make a long write-up about how Kim Petras actually makes bedroom pop/electropop and including her as a hyperpop artist dilutes the term's meaning too much, but I realize that my analysis is meaningless without anything to back it up. All I'll say is listen to Kim Petras, then listen to any other hyperpop artist, and you'll get what I mean.Themaddman (talk) 20:23, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kim Petras makes electropop, not hyperpop. Artists such as osquinn, glaive, ericdoa should be added. Benarnold98 (talk) 10:37, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Emo?![edit]

Why does it list Emo in genres Hyperpop is derived from? Emo is a type of Punk music, and Hyperpop is Experimental, Dance-Pop derived music. I don't see any similarity. Do they mean Emo Rap? If so, it should link to that article, not to the article on Emo, the rock genre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark Lord Thomas Pie (talk • contribs) 21:14, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is a lot of emo in Hyperpop. Lots of Dylan Brady's production is quite emo inspired, e.g. Lil Aaron - Drugs, 100 Gecs - Stupid Horse.

Undue weight[edit]

User:Acousmana has insisted on including information in the lead that is reflected in one (1) source, and given it the same weight as information that is reflected in 5+ sources. That’s bad and misleading. There’s no consensus that hyperpop began with nu rave band Test Icicles or Hudson Mohawke, but virtually every source names PC Music as an originary hub of the scene and many of its pioneering artists. Explain yourself. Kkollaps (talk) 02:23, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for your input on this, the main concern - with respect to origin of the term/style/acts associated with it etc. - is that we try and communicate the nuanced picture painted by the sources rather than appear to promote a single collective/label and it's founder. We also need to be sure we are not just uncritically regurgitating music PR. If you are happy to wait, I'll get back to this in the next couple of days re:what various sources state about, origins, influences, current trends etc. Acousmana 20:36, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I should think the main concern is to adequately summarize the available published sources on the subject, not to unduly weigh a claim briefly thrown out by one source as heavily as a consistent motif discussed at length by the overwhelming majority of the sources. Kkollaps (talk) 14:40, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Source list with quotes
2013 26.08.2013 https://tankmagazine.com/tank/live-archive-music/radio-tank-mix-a-g-cook/ There's so much other stuff that has been influential: J-Pop, K-Pop, Nightcore, Ark Music Factory, Hudson Mohawke and Nadsroi
2014 13.10.2014 https://www.vice.com/en/article/rp73k6/sophie-is-trolling-edm-by-spitting-its-cult-of-personality-back-into-its-face-1013 It’s impossible to talk about Sophie without his relationship to PC Music, a forward-thinking sound collective from the UK, comprised of an unknown number of mostly anon acts who share the same inherent hyper-real, hyper-pop qualities of Sophie, an unofficial but heavily involved member.
2014 17.09.2014 https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/485-pc-musics-twisted-electronic-pop-a-users-manual/ And then there's SOPHIE, an artist not directly affiliated with PC Music, but who frequently appears alongside PC Music artists
2014 17.09.2014 https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/485-pc-musics-twisted-electronic-pop-a-users-manual/ While PC Music constitutes a largely self-contained universe, SOPHIE has travelled a parallel path, appearing first on singles for Huntleys & Palmers and then Glasgow's Numbers label. Though not technically under the PC Music umbrella, her affiliation with the label recently solidified though a high-profile collaboration with A. G. Cook on a project called QT
2015 02.06.2015 https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/may/02/pc-music-dance-music-collective a group of twentysomething Londoners who make music which sounds like Japanese tween pop of the distant future played through the JD Sports in-store radio of 2002;
2015 14.12.2015 https://www.vice.com/en/article/z45m74/hudson-mohawke-threw-the-most-insane-warehouse-project-yet PC Music's head honcho A. G. Cook, Lucky Me's Eclair Fifi, elusive Montreal rapper Little Baby Angel, Scottish hyper-pop producer Joseph Marinetti,
2019 16.07.2019 https://djmag.com/longreads/sophie-changing-narrative “The marriage of sound design, songwriting and hooks is so refreshing to me across all of her productions,” Calum continues. “At first, I thought she used to sound like equal parts Hudson Mohawke, Pet Shop Boys and Autechre in a boiling pot,
2019 20.12.2019 https://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/47273/1/pc-music-a-g-cook-history-end-of-decade-2010s-retrospective PC Music’s The history of PC Music, the most exhilarating record label of the 2010s mash-up of trashy pop, hardstyle tempos, trance melodies, happy hardcore euphoria, twisted grime, Korean and Japanese pop hookiness, Rustie and HudMo-style elation
2019 24.07.2019 https://mixmag.net/feature/post-pc-music-pop-continuum?next The pop cultural landscape has changed and PC Music producers, like Danny L Harle, Lil Data, GFOTY—alongside allies Charli XCX and Carly Rae Jepsen—have arguably had a lot to do with it.
2020 01.10.2020 https://americansongwriter.com/a-g-cook-is-changing-popular-music-as-we-know-it/ I was more on the MIDI songwriting side. I was just getting things down and mainly using presets, maybe combining them in a good way, but I wasn’t deeply involved with sound design. Then, I met someone like SOPHIE and her work was pretty mind-blowing. But, that also meant that when we were collaborating, I could just focus on my bit and she could focus on her bit.
2020 10.11.2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/arts/music/hyperpop-spotify.html The Hyperpop playlist, which Spotify started in August 2019, began as a direct response to 100 gecs’ viral rise. “The fact that so many people were talking about this project inspired us to look deeper and see if there were other artists making music like this that we didn’t know about,” Lizzy Szabo, an editor at Spotify
2020 10.11.2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/arts/music/hyperpop-spotify.html Over email, McDonald said he first saw the term applied to PC Music’s releases in 2014 but it wasn’t until 2018 that hyperpop qualified as a microgenre: “For our categorization purposes it was mostly a matter of waiting to see if enough artists would coalesce around a similar ebullient electro-maximalism.”
2020 10.11.2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/arts/music/hyperpop-spotify.html Even as some of these artists begin to brush up against the larger music industry, defining what hyperpop is, and what it isn’t, is still evasive. “Hyperpop is a genre but it’s also an artist and listening community,” Szabo said. “It’s a playlist that hugs both of those ideals.”
2020 17.12.2020 https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/hyperpop-genre-2020-charli-xcx-rina-sawayama-b1775025.html From Charli XCX to Rina Sawayama, the sugary, synthy and surreal style known as hyperpop has become one of the most talked-about music trends this year.
2020 17.12.2020 https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/hyperpop-genre-2020-charli-xcx-rina-sawayama-b1775025.html Hyperpop is a self-referential, humorous and excessive brand of pop music that is apparently everywhere at the moment and proliferating lightning-fast in the era of TikTok.
2020 17.12.2020 https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/hyperpop-genre-2020-charli-xcx-rina-sawayama-b1775025.html You have the futuristic pop chops of XCX and Cook alongside the more esoteric underground electronics of artists such as Arca and – a former PC Music affiliate – SOPHIE
2020 17.12.2020 https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/hyperpop-genre-2020-charli-xcx-rina-sawayama-b1775025.html For all its hype, to some, the ground covered by hyperpop won’t seem all that new. It’s possible to see it as an expression not just of the genres it borrows from, but of the scene that evolved around AG Cook’s PC Music label (an early home to SOPHIE and Charli XCX, among others) in the UK in the early 2010s. Even then, the sounds PC Music were putting out had contemporaries in the likes of Rustie and Hudson Mohawke (who also worked with Kanye West around the same time as Arca) and whose fluoro, trance-edged smooshes of dance and hip-hop are reminiscent of a lot of hyperpop today.
2020 18.09.2020 https://mixmag.net/feature/a-g-cook-pc-music-experimental-pop-interview Over the last few years, PC Music sounds and styles have been increasingly infiltrating the mainstream: from label affiliate SOPHIE collaborating with Madonna, her single ‘Lemonde’ soundtracking a McDonald’s advert and Danny L Harle teaming up with Carly Rae Jepsen to the more recent explosion of 100 gecs, ‘hyperpop’ and the post-PC Music generation.
2020 18.09.2020 https://mixmag.net/feature/a-g-cook-pc-music-experimental-pop-interview He’s quick to downplay his impact, though, describing it as a continuum, with influences including Hudson Mohawke, Rustie, Uffie and Ed Banger going back to Gorillaz, Daft Punk and even Kraftwerk, referencing “how unbelievably mainstream and high concept genre-destroying that stuff was. There’s been plenty of things that we’ve also evolved from.”
2020 21.12.2020 https://www.wsj.com/articles/hyperpops-joyful-too-muchness-11609278593 The genre? It’s usually called hyperpop, and 100 Gecs, along with London producer A.G. Cook, are among its most visible proponents.
2020 21.12.2020 https://www.wsj.com/articles/hyperpops-joyful-too-muchness-11609278593 The genre tag was originally applied in 2014 to Mr. Cook’s London-based collective and label PC Music, but now reaches much further: In August 2019, streaming platform Spotify, responding to the growing popularity of 100 Gecs, created the hyperpop playlist to highlight this scene.
2020 27.10.2020 https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvx85v/this-is-hyperpop-a-genre-tag-for-genre-less-music The term “hyperpop” first originated in the trenches of SoundCloud’s nightcore scene (a style of pitch-shifted pop remix that’s often paired with Anime cover art), but Charli is the queen of hyperpop’s current form.
2020 27.10.2020 https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvx85v/this-is-hyperpop-a-genre-tag-for-genre-less-music Her 2017 mixtape Pop 2 featured then-underground singers like Dorian Electra and Caroline Polachek, outré production from A.G. Cook, Sophie and umru, and a titular mission to give pop – sonically, spiritually, aesthetically – a facelift for the modern age. Many of those collaborators were spawning from PC Music, who defined forward-thinking pop in the mid-2010s through a blend of exuberant melodies and eccentric electronic production.
2020 27.10.2020 https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvx85v/this-is-hyperpop-a-genre-tag-for-genre-less-music The PC Music sound is an undeniable influence on hyperpop, but the style also pulls heavily from rap of the cloud, emo and lo-fi trap variety, as well as flamboyant electronic genres like trance, dubstep and chiptune.
2020 27.10.2020 https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvx85v/this-is-hyperpop-a-genre-tag-for-genre-less-music In August 2019, the official Spotify “hyperpop” playlist launched with 100 gecs on its cover, and it’s currently the primary engine for promoting, popularising and codifying hyperpop writ large.
2020 27.10.2020 https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvx85v/this-is-hyperpop-a-genre-tag-for-genre-less-music “We did some research and saw there were some terms being thrown around to classify this type of music, and we ended up landing on ‘hyperpop’ because we felt it was the most all-encompassing.”
2020 27.10.2020 https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvx85v/this-is-hyperpop-a-genre-tag-for-genre-less-music Unlike the colourful electronic music of 100 gecs and the experimental pop of Charli XCX, the style of hyperpop that p4rkr and her contemporaries, like SEBii and saturn, are making is heavily influenced by mid-2010s Soundcloud rap
2020 27.10.2020 https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvx85v/this-is-hyperpop-a-genre-tag-for-genre-less-music “And also, most of the artists leading the scene and pioneering the scene are trans, queer, etc. I do think hyperpop and queerness are inseparable because most of these sounds wouldn’t exist without Sophie, Laura Les, That Kid, Dorian Electra, me, I guess.”
2020 27.10.2020 https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvx85v/this-is-hyperpop-a-genre-tag-for-genre-less-music I think hyperpop is a genre that’s also a community – of artists, and of listeners.”
2021 01.04.2021 https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/n7v8dg/glaive-hyperpop-scene-music-interview-all-dogs-go-to-heaven-ep It’s just as well, then, that glaive’s energetic warped pop has seen him rocket to success within the hyperpop scene — a post-PC Music movement of upbeat, emo-tinged maximalist electro.
2021 14.04.2021 https://www.kerrang.com/features/why-hyperpop-owes-its-existence-to-heavy-metal/ Crunkcore – an irreverent and turbo-charged mix of hip-hop, rock, pop and dance – was very much the hyperpop of its day,
2021 14.04.2021 https://www.kerrang.com/features/why-hyperpop-owes-its-existence-to-heavy-metal/ it was 3OH!3​’s ability to parody pop and take it to bewildering extremes that created the main blueprint for hyperpop.
2021 14.04.2021 https://www.kerrang.com/features/why-hyperpop-owes-its-existence-to-heavy-metal/ they’ve had a massive influence on hyperpop’s biggest artists, with 100 gecs, Gupi and Fraxiom in particular all praising the pair.
2021 20.04.2021 https://i-d.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/n7bw3z/digicore-music-scene-profile-hyperpop Hyperpop — the maximal, autotune-heavy and at times chaotic music made by the likes of Charli XCX, PC Music and 100 gecs — has exploded over the past couple of years. But now, a new scene is rising up from under the Spotify-coined genre.
2021 26.02.2021 https://themusicdeskblog.wordpress.com/2021/02/26/danny-l-harle-harlecore-review-nothing-left-but-gabber-and-gimmicks-for-this-pop-culture-prankster/ To be frank, some of that cultural rehabilitation had a lot to do with two artists, Charli XCX and Sophie, who frequently collaborated with but existed independently of the PC Music pop factory, specifically the latter: in the wake of her tragic and sudden passing, internet appraisals of her pioneering and ultimately visionary work evidenced her stunning creative evolution, both solo and as a hired producer, never one to sacrifice genuine feeling in favour of an exaggerated, up-to-eleven blast of pop-culture subversion.
2021 26.02.2021 https://themusicdeskblog.wordpress.com/2021/02/26/danny-l-harle-harlecore-review-nothing-left-but-gabber-and-gimmicks-for-this-pop-culture-prankster/ A likeminded foil to Cook (the pair have put out music as Dux Content), regarded as having a keener pop sensibility than the rest of the PC Music mob, Harle found inspiration in Nokia ringtone keyboard riffs, post-Robyn “fembot” synthpop, winking postmodern twists on rave and house, et al.
2021 31.01.2021 https://www.theringer.com/music/2021/1/31/22258810/sophie-musician-obituary Released in 2013 at the height of the dubstep era—a time of weaponized synthesizers and hypermasculine EDM bros—“Bipp” drew influences from legendary electronic artists like Aphex Twin and newer innovators like Hudson Mohawke.
2021 31.01.2021 https://www.theringer.com/music/2021/1/31/22258810/sophie-musician-obituary In recent months, the term “hyperpop” has gone from music-crit jargon to the name of a legit subgenre, an umbrella term for brick-walled, squelching songs made by Rina Sawayama, Slayyyter, and most notably, 100 gecs. It’s influenced by trap and emo and sometimes nu-metal, but at its core, hyperpop brings an absurdist approach to pop music, hollowing out the parent genre’s innards and wearing it like a knee-high latex boot covered in glitter. In other words, it’s influenced by the music Sophie started making a decade ago. And at hyperpop’s very best—say, 100 gecs’ “Hand Crushed by a Mallet”—it sounds precisely like Sophie’s future.

Refs, in terms of term/genre origin, key influences, associated artists - other than Cook - etc. The lead offers a skewed summary. Acousmana 14:33, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • I support Acousmana's changes. The lead's function is to provide a concise summary of the body, and the body should include a balance of significant viewpoints. There is no source that explicitly contradicts the claims in question. ili (talk) 23:39, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead mentioned several artists invoked only by one (1) source in the same capacity as an artist/label invoked by 6+ sources. That’s not a "balance" that’s undue weight.Kkollaps (talk) 21:13, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Imagine a scenario where we had 20+ sources stating that "hyperpop" was a term invented by PC Music. Then we have one source pointing out that a very notable individual was using the term 5 years earlier. That's not undue weight if we note the one source that acknowledges the earlier artist. Same concept applies here. ili (talk) 20:19, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That analogy doesn’t work. We’re not talking about a concrete historical usage of a term, we’re talking about a vague confluence of musical sensibilities. If some said Scritti Politti arguably pioneered a similar approach to hyperpop in 1985 (true imo), it would nonetheless be misleading to claim the genre originated with them, in the lead with zero clarification no less. The overwhelming majority of sources link the genre’s beginnings to PC Music-affiliated artists.
Also want to clarify the quote in question here, which is far from unequivocal: "If you wanted to go further back, then bands like Test Icicles (Blood Orange’s early band) or other outliers of the much-maligned “nu rave” scene in London might fit a similar bill". Come on. Kkollaps (talk) 21:13, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I definitely agree with @Acousmana: on this one, and support his changes. The sources speak for themselves. And the fact that these artists were quoted by A.G. Cook as direct influences on the genre should be enough to warrant their inclusion. Benarnold98 (talk) 00:08, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"The sources speak for themselves." What? You mean the one source? There's one source for each of these inclusions. The source for "nu rave" says "If you wanted to go further back, then bands like Test Icicles or other outliers of the much-maligned “nu rave” scene in London might fit a similar bill"". That speaks for itself—by naming this connection as tentative and ambiguous. The Soundcloud source states that the name originated from the scene, not that the sound did. Influences are not synonymous with the origin of a genre. AG has also named Conlon Nancarrow and Scritti Politti as influences, but nobody's claiming they're the inventors of the genre. Kkollaps (talk) 00:19, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If there are too many confluences to name, then I would support a line that simply states something like "most accounts usually trace hyperpop to PC Music", but as it stands right now, I have no strong feelings one way or the other. The lead is not terribly long at the moment, and given the article length, it could be expanded to double or thrice its current size. So I don't see why there should be an issue with covering all the referenced influences from the body.ili (talk) 00:14, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources under question[edit]

I don't understand the same lead weight being given to artists vaguely invoked by one source as possibly similar to PC Music ("might fit a similar bill" or "reminiscent of" or "contemporaries"). This isn't sufficient critical consensus to guarantee them the same level of weight as that given to PC, who have an overwhelming plurality of sources naming them as central to the origin (either as pioneers or influences or associates of pioneers). I'm not sure what vendetta you people have against PC/Cook, but the current article is simply cherry-picking and unreflective of the sources.

And just to make the tentative qualities of these quotes absolutely clear:

  • The sole passage used to support the inclusion of Nu-Rave in the lead as an origin point: "To some, the ground covered by hyperpop won’t seem all that new [...] Test Icicles or other outliers of the much-maligned “nu rave” scene in London might fit a similar bill" Acousmana's lead and body paragraph is simply a willful misreading of what the text says.
Note: User:Solidest (here) and User:ILIL (here) made this objection as well. Not sure how any honest reading of that passage could produce another intepretation.
  • The sole sentence used to support the inclusion of Nightcore in the lead: "The term “hyperpop” first originated in the trenches of SoundCloud’s nightcore scene (a style of pitch-shifted pop remix that’s often paired with Anime cover art)." Seems to explicitly define Nightcore as a distinct remix genre and says nothing about its musical influence on hyperpop. It's only talking about the term itself.
  • The sole sentence used to support the privileging of Rustie/Hudson Mohawke first in the lead as origin points (not influences)—they are each mentioned exactly once in the article, while PC/Sophie/Cook are both mentioned 5+ times and discussed at length: "Even then, the sounds PC Music were putting out had contemporaries in the likes of Rustie and Hudson Mohawke...whose fluoro, trance-edged smooshes of dance and hip-hop are reminiscent of a lot of hyperpop today" Describing them as "contemporaries" of PC Music does not establish them as a central focal point for the genre's development.

Meanwhile, there are 7+ sources in the body describing PC/Cook as a central locus of the genre in one way or another. These things aren't equivalent. Kkollaps (talk) 00:37, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Guess why he doesn't mention Nancarrow or Scritti Politti here? Because he is talking specifically about music directly related to "hyperpop."
There is, once again, no indication of musical influence here. It’s a repurposed term. Kkollaps (talk) 18:22, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
aside from the many nods to other artist and genres (many more in the sources above) how many mentions of Rustie and Hudson Mohawke are you counting? feel free to add the citations and improve the article. Acousmana 11:53, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Every single one of these mentions describes them as influences?! I feel like I’m going mad! Based on this reasoning, that lead sentence should also include K-pop, J-pop, grime, Gorillaz, Daft Punk, Pet Shop Boys, and Kraftwerk as origin points! What is the reasoning here!?? An influence is not the same as a originating scene/locus!!!!! Kkollaps (talk) 18:18, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
there is no year zero where a genre called "hyperpop" appeared fully formed out of a void, per Cook, what we are dealing with is a "continuum" and it's clear from the sources that acts like Hudson Mohawke were more than simply influential - "Even then, the sounds PC Music were putting out had contemporaries in the likes of Rustie and Hudson Mohawke". More generally, the term is itself not new and has been used to describe exaggeration in pop music going back decades, but that's a separate issue. Acousmana 10:27, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately for you, Cook is not a published journalist, critic, or historian, so his opinion indicates no professional consensus nor any conclusive commentary, especially since he doesn’t seem to be commenting on the genre as a whole, but only on his own work. Each artist will see themselves as part of a particular "continuum" of their unique influences. That doesn’t make their references historically significant in the professional literature. Kkollaps (talk) 14:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cook is a WP:PRIMARY on the topic of PC Music and "hyperpop" but the source of the statement re:continuum is secondary (Mixmag).
  • Over the last few years, PC Music sounds and styles have been increasingly infiltrating the mainstream: from label affiliate SOPHIE collaborating with Madonna, her single ‘Lemonde’ soundtracking a McDonald’s advert and Danny L Harle teaming up with Carly Rae Jepsen to the more recent explosion of 100 gecs, ‘hyperpop’ and the post-PC Music generation. Understandably, Alex sees it as a “victory - for the collective to get to a point where it’s understood”. He’s quick to downplay his impact, though, describing it as a continuum, with influences including Hudson Mohawke, Rustie, Uffie and Ed Banger going back to Gorillaz, Daft Punk and even Kraftwerk, referencing “how unbelievably mainstream and high concept genre-destroying that stuff was. There’s been plenty of things that we’ve also evolved from.”
Following your rationale, PC Music is also nothing more than an influence per "The PC Music sound is an undeniable influence on hyperpop, but the style also pulls heavily from rap of the cloud, emo and lo-fi trap variety, as well as flamboyant electronic genres like trance, dubstep and chiptune.". Maintaining ignorance of the sources provided to push a preferred narrative doesn't help the article. Acousmana 14:56, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In The Independent article you listed: Apple by AG Cook, a long-time collaborator with XCX, and considered the “godfather” of the genre with his label PC Music. Pretty clear this lists PC Music and Cook as more than just an influence. ⠀TOMÁSTOMÁSTOMÁS⠀TALK⠀ 16:19, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
source of "godfather" epithet (used in quotes by Independent writer) is Szabo, the Spotify hyperpop list editor (per Vice article), so POV ultimately, still just one of many influences. Acousmana 14:45, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, absolutely no consensus has been reached in agreement with your take here, which is still willfully bad. Kkollaps (talk) 22:32, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Newer artists/style that should be addressed[edit]

Hyperpop is starting to garner a roster of young, more underground artists, who are starting to become rather pivotal to this genre. The article doesn't mention any of these artists, and I think there should be at least a paragraph detailing these artists, whilst referencing their link to the underground hip hop community. I also believe artists such as Bladee should be credited for the genre's admission into underground hip hop; as his style has clearly been an inspiration for many of these artists. Some examples of artists I'm referring to are ericdoa, midwxst, blackwinterwells, glaive, d0llywood1, SEBii, p4rkr and aldn, all of whom have featured on the hyperpop spotify playlist.

is there evidence of coverage in reliable secondary sources? Acousmana 15:03, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, plenty. See the links below.
Benarnold98 (talk) 18:04, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A good rule of thumb is to generally wait for the artists to have pages before adding them, because if an artist isn't notabaly enough to have their own page then they definitely aren't notably enough to be mentioned on the page for the entire genre. I checked through your list and only Bladee seems to have a page. I don't think his inclusion would be too controversial. Issan Sumisu (talk) 18:26, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
note too that Sparky & We Are The Guard are not WP:RS, they are unadulterated 'music PR' websites, Dummymag is not far behind, artist coverage in such sources is not an indication of wider notability. Acousmana 19:56, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unless an artist is notable for contributing to the genre, as opposed to just being in the genre, then they should not be listed here (WP:NAMEDROP). Instead, reserve their inclusion for List of hyperpop artists. ili (talk) 20:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I guess that makes sense about those artists, r.e. notability. I do belive these artists have contributed to the genre however, essentially spurring a new wave of hyperpop, with Bladee being one of the prime influencers of this new style, in addition to the artists who are traditionally associated with influencing the genre, i.e. A.G. Cook, Charli XCX and SOPHIE. This new style is more hip-hop orientated than some traditional hyperpop, and the production takes heavy influence from Dylan Brady. Similarly, this style's vocals and general aesthetic take heavy influence from 100 Gecs, as well as the members of Drain Gang, most notably Bladee. An example of a notable song in this style is the hugely viral 'SugarCrash!' by ElyOtto. This style is also all over the Hyperpop spotify playlist, with multiple appearances from SEBii, blackwinterwells, ericdoa, midwxst, d0llywood1 and glaive to name a few. As this playlist is often associated with the origin of this genre, I believe these artists' abundance on the playlist indicate notability. I think a great addition to the article would be a paragraph explaining how the genre is starting to evolve, influenced mostly by 100 Gecs and Drain Gang, and is starting to gain traction in a more underground (and notably younger), hip-hop orientated scene. The artists don't necessarily have to be mentioned if not deemed notable enough, but I think maybe three examples of artists would better convey to the reader what type of music is being referred to. The song, 'SugarCrash!' could also be used an example. I am also very surprised that this song doesn't yet have its own article given its notoriety. It was absolutely huge on TikTok, with over 8.6 million videos where it was used as the sound[1], it has also garnered large streaming numbers, and gained a remix featuring Kim Petras and Curtis Waters. That certainly seems notable enough to warrant an article. I'd be grateful to hear feedback on my propositions. Benarnold98 (talk) 11:05, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Something else that I believe is worth noting is that there was an instance where the official Hyperpop spotify playlist was actually curated by Bladee with producer, Mechatok. This edition of the playlist is no longer active on Spotify, but there are a few active user-created playlists consisting of the songs they added to the playlist, such as this one. I believe the fact this playlist was curated by Bladee shows that he has a strong connection to the genre, so should definitely be mentioned on this article. Benarnold98 (talk) 11:16, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Spotify's guest playlist promotions functions as a promotion for an artist's album release; I would refrain from putting any more weight on the playlist in terms of defining its future development, since Spotify isn't a gatekeeper of the definition of the genre. If there's credible articles you can say that point to this shift in sound, that names those artists, then feel free to draft a change, but otherwise there shouldn't be changes based on original research (see: WP:OR). ⠀TOMÁSTOMÁSTOMÁS⠀TALK⠀ 20:20, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would also add, plays alone does not warrant an article for a song. See WP:NALBUMS ⠀TOMÁSTOMÁSTOMÁS⠀TALK⠀ 20:28, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
bottom line is without coverage in WP:RS it's simply not notable enough for inclusion, there has been an explosion of "hyperpop" acts in the US, anyone can make tracks and upload to soundcloud/youtube, promote on ticktock/discord/twitch etc. possibly leading to inclusion on a playlist, but that doesn't mean it's notable, this stuff is disposable music, it's churned out by the bucketloads, and is being massively hyped, how much of this work will stand the test of time? why we should probably note WP:RECENT too. Acousmana 09:37, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.tiktok.com/music/SugarCrash-6920125567752734722?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

Orphaned references in Hyperpop[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Hyperpop's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Independent":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 19:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bubblegum Bass & Origins[edit]

This article generally seems to focus on developments after 2019 without much regard for the previous 5 years of activity.

Before the term 'Hyperpop' was popularized parts of this niche were often referred to as 'Bubblegum Bass'. Though I can't find the deleted page myself, it was also added to the wiki under that name back when it first became of note, though this was also briefly a redirect, this time toward Wonky. There appears to be no mention of this term in the article as it stands, though it is still occasionally still used (perhaps primarily on sites with user-generated tags). On Sophie's page the term redirects to UK Bass despite the poorly implemented section there having also been removed. As what amounts to a sub-sub-genre I don't think it's quite worthy of its own article, but I do believe it needs a mention and would be a good fit under the current umbrella of Hyperpop.

Further, the 'Origins' section opens right up on the topic of the name 'Hyperpop' without mention of the scene's close connections to contemporary developments in Wonky, Deconstructed club, UK bass, etc., plus the influence of the brief but intense output of (certain) Japanese netlabels in the early 2010s, especially in regard to release format. There's a more direct connection to PC Music and the netlabel scene via S. Whybray as JACK댄스. Regarding Hyperpop's history at large, one might also want to consider its brief passes with the mainstream via Bitch I'm Madonna, though they ultimately pushed the composition toward other contemporary hits, and the Sophie-influenced production of Vince Staple's Big Fish Theory. — VariousDeliciousCheeses (talk) 20:09, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup[edit]

Hi, I think ItsAlwaysLupus' last revision was constructive; an infobox is just meant to summarise what's in the article and having that many links in it does not read well. E.g. the styles of hip hop, trap, emo rap, and cloud rap all come under 2010s hip hop anyway. They didn't remove genres that weren't already sourced in the body of the article.
I also noticed VariousDeliciousCheeses made some relevant points above but didn't get a response. 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:9853:DD8A:3BA4:FCFC (talk) 14:46, 24 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the selection of stylistic origins is arbitrary (WP:CHERRYPICKING) and infringes Wikipedia policy regarding oversimplification and the failure to balance equally significant points of view. Worst of all, it also misrepresents sources, as it pipelinks "avant-garde" to "avant-pop", a genre that is never referenced in the article. ili (talk) 17:00, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Origins of the Spotify "hyperpop" playlist[edit]

There's a line in the article that currently reads

Music associated with this scene received wider attention in August 2019 when Spotify renamed an existing playlist featuring artists such as Cook and 100 Gecs to "hyperpop".

The source linked is How Hyperpop, a Small Spotify Playlist, Grew Into a Big Deal, which seems to directly contradict the claim made in the article:

The Hyperpop playlist, which Spotify started in August 2019, began as a direct response to 100 gecs’ viral rise. “The fact that so many people were talking about this project inspired us to look deeper and see if there were other artists making music like this that we didn’t know about,” Lizzy Szabo, an editor at Spotify and the playlist’s lead curator, said in a phone interview. […] Szabo and her colleagues landed on the name after seeing it come up in metadata collected by Glenn McDonald, Spotify’s “data alchemist,” whose job is finding emerging sounds on the platform and classifying them into “microgenres.”

This seems to say that the playlist was created newly in 2019 and had the name "hyperpop" from the beginning.

Jarhill (talk) 00:59, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

HexD article[edit]

Maybe the editors of this article would get interested in that the article for HexD got listed for deletion. I don't know much about either hyperpop or hexd but the gut feeling tells me that these two genres of what basically is glitched-out rehashed electronic post-trap something music should definitely be related, even to a larger extent. Bitcrush, glitches, glitched artworks, glitchcore, russian drain, "unorthodox mishmash of EDM genres", sigilkore, allusions to the late 2000s pop and alt subcultures - all that stuff is basically the same type of music made by the alt teens for TikTok and soundcloud through the early 2020s, amirite? The differences are too subtle for me to grasp. So maybe you could take care of that article too, cause it was created and seemingly abandoned by the author right after thatPDDisPDDat (talk) 12:00, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"abandoned"? It was only created on 9 March 2022‎! -Lopifalko (talk) 12:35, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that he didn't even participate in the AfD and made no improvements to the article since AfD nomination, so maybe he doesn't care about the article anymore. PDDisPDDat (talk) 12:45, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The article doesn't have a single WP:RS with WP:SIGCOV. Presumably if the editor were able to find any, then they would have included them when they wrote the article, and without them there's nothing to support a claim of keeping at AfD. -Lopifalko (talk) 12:53, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's exactly the problem with the article. I've seen sources in the wild, I mean I've seen written specials dedicated to sigil/hexd, but the author seemingly didn't even care to rephrase everything he found in his own references, let alone adding or finding any new ones. Problem is I don't listen and neither have much interest in HexD, so I am not going to edit it. In short, I guess there are sources in the wild and the article is just a bit of, eh, low effort in the regard of finding and referencing those sources. It may be notable and significant, but presented in a way it's going to inevitably get deleted. So maybe someone who loves hyperpop will find some time for the hexd article, since I guess the two are related PDDisPDDat (talk) 13:00, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've keep the original article in my sandbox so that whenever I'll find a good source, I'll add to it. Pyraminxsolver (talk) 04:43, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think I might've fixed this slightly? Iluvlieu (talk) 17:41, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should I get rid of the Novagang section of Digicore?[edit]

I feel like it shouldn't be there, even though that Novagang members have contributed a lot to Digicore/Robloxcore. Iluvlieu (talk) 16:40, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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