Talk:ISSF 10 meter air pistol

ISSF 10 meter air pistol was one of the Sports and recreation good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 29, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed
September 8, 2023	Good article reassessment	Delisted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 9, 2008.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that compared to standard pistols, the pistols used in the ISSF 10 m Air Pistol event are allowed to be larger and have lower trigger pull weight?

Current status: Delisted good article

Look of tables[edit]

User:Jao, you are right, my change isn't a straight forward one and I was going to change all the pages (10 m, 50 m etc.) to the new style... I have just changed the list of champions too. I have only done the men, now we can compare side-by-side with the women (stil in current style). I think mine looks a bit better organized, because with the old table (of champions) it's not immediately clear what is going on with large empty areas and no borders and different background colours.

I suppose it's just a matter of taste... lemme me know which one looks better and we can revert or I'll change the women's one too (and the other pages)?

Or perhaps we want the one changed (list of champions) and not the other (records)? --Deon Steyn 07:16, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, since I'm the one who originally created these tables, I'm probably not impartial, but I prefer the record tables the way they are, actually. As for the champion tables, your change unfortunately make them a bit longer, but they certainly also make them a good deal more readible, and I think that's more important in this case. So at least for the champion tables (in this and the other articles), I say go ahead. (Also, these tables are missing from most of the articles, and my adding them is a very slow process. If you'd like to help out, please feel free to do so.) -- Jao 07:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, the "records" tables aren't that big and not too serious. I will only convert the women's "champions" table then. While I'm at it, I will reduce these champions table's font size slightly (perhaps to 90/95%) to make them more compact. I have just put the "records" of the 2002 ISSF World Shooting Championships (where you also did good work) article into a wikitable... lemme me know what you think... I will add some thoughts on that dicussion page too.

I just want these pages to look more standardised (with other wiki pages and sports pages like olympics, commonwealth games etc.)

Deon Steyn 07:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done converting the "list of champions" tables, I will do the same on other shooting discipline pages now... Deon Steyn 09:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox[edit]

I have created and added the new infobox Template:Infobox Shooting sport. Let me know what you guys think, I have so far only added it here (where there is a male and female section) and on 25 m Center-Fire Pistol where there is male only (to show the difference). Feel free to add comments and suggestions to the Infobox talk page. -- Deon Steyn 16:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Target[edit]

So how big, exactly, is the target?RSido 22:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added some dimensions to the image caption. If you want to elaborate (or just feel curious), it's all in rule 6.3.2.6 (here). -- Jao 23:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:10 m Air Pistol/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:
The lead is very short, it should be expanded to give a more overview of the event. Read WP:LEAD for more information.

and a 10 metre distance between its front-what is meant by "front" in the first sentence of the Range and Target sentence?
Many of the top-level competitions are held at temporary ranges installed in versatile sporting facilities, convention centres or similar. - similar what?
The pistol must be gas-driven, operated by only one hand from a standing position, and may only be loaded with one pellet at a time.[10] The caliber used is 4.5 mm (.177 in), the minimum trigger pull weight is 500 g, half that of a standard pistol, and the grip restrictions are similar to standard pistols, but the box in which the pistol must fit is much larger: 42 by 20 by 5 cm.[11] -in these sentences, I feel that the second sentence could go first, as it introduces the equipment. These are the first two sentences in the "Equipment" section.
Ear protection is recommended both by the ISSF[14] and by coaches,[15][16] not least for the ability to shut out distractions.-the last part of that sentence after "coaches" needs to be reworded or elaborated, as I do not even understand by what is meant in that sentence.
Each relay starts with a ten-minute preparation time,[18] followed by the "Start" command, indicating the start of the competition time.-who gives the "Start" command?
Men and junior men is used a lot in the article, they need to be elaborated as to what these rankings mean.
Men and junior men shoot 60 shots (105 minutes) at all major competitions, while women and junior women shoot 40 (75 minutes).-whats is meant by minutes in the parenthesis?
A final is included in most championships, although not in the World Junior Championships.-although "shooting" championships is meant here, the word "shooting" should be included.

B. MoS compliance:
Per comments above.
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:
The {{citeweb}} template needs to be completely filled out when using sources from the internet, there needs to be an accessdate, publisher, author, title.

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

They are generally used in other international competitions as well, and in some countries they are even common in national competitions. -can you verify this with a source?
Although there is a redirect to the main article, the tables on the statistics should be sourced with a main source.

C. No original research:

This allows for longer sight lines and also gives room for cocking arms, although with a few exceptions (such as the Baikal IZH-46M) modern match air pistols use pre-filled air, or less commonly carbon dioxide, containers.-source for this statement, if not, it violates WP:NOR.

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:

In 1989, the sizes of the score zones were somewhat lowered,-reword this, as it violates WP:NPOV.
Whereas air rifle shooting has seen a massive result increase in the decades after this, the same has not happened in air pistol, and Sergei Pyzhianov's world record of 593 points, set in the first World Cup Final with the new targets, remains unbeaten.-again, WP:NPOV violation, especially with the word "massive."

Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Is there a logo for this event that can be used in the infobox?
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
A lot of problems stick out in this article, I will give it time for the concerns to be addressed before pass/fail.SRX^--^Latino Heat 15:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)|A lot of problems stick out in this article, I will give it time for the concerns to be addressed before pass/fail.SRX^--^Latino Heat 15:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)|}}[reply]

First comments[edit]

(This is my first GA attempt, I hope I am replying in the correct place.) Thanks for your constructive remarks, SRX! I think most if not all of your concerns are fairly easily addressed, and I will get around to it (I don't know how quickly as I'm a bit busy at the moment, but in due time). I'll keep you posted on the improvements I make. Just a question on the NPOV issues, it's the use of the words "somewhat" and "massive" you're objecting to? If I change these sentences to include actual numbers instead (with references), would that make them alright? -- Jao (talk) 17:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that will make them correct, as it remains factual and maintains a NPOV. You have a maximum of 2 weeks before the GAN closes.--SRX^--^Latino Heat 17:17, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't be a problem. So far I've tried to address the questions raised under point 1. -- Jao (talk) 18:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Much better. But you should spell out the name of the ISSF, and put the acronym in parenthesis. Aside from that, you should elaborate who the Chief Officer is, the one who gives the start command.--SRX^--^Latino Heat 18:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed the acronym, and expanded the sentence introducing the CRO. Also added a little paragraph on equipment control, as I realized it was missing. -- Jao (talk) 19:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good so far. I want to point something out though, is it officially called the "10 m" or is it called the "10 meter" Air Pistol? or what does the m stand for?SRX^--^Latino Heat 19:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it stands for meter/metre. It's never spelled out in official documents/websites, but it's a little inconsistently rendered: the official rules use "10 m Air Pistol", but lists of results (such as this) tend to use "10m Air Pistol", as do the Olympic/World championship histories at the ISSF website, including the medalist PDFs. I've avoided the latter, despite its greater frequency, because the space is mandated by WP:MOSNUM. (This same discussion applies to all ISSF shooting events prefixed with shooting distance, of course.)-- Jao (talk) 21:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but I feel it can be bolded in the lead. Also, please inform me when you have addressed all the concerns above.SRX^--^Latino Heat 21:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think I have now. Filling out the citation templates while still including rule numbers is a little tricky, I don't know if another format would be better. As for a logo, there's no such general thing. Would another image, such as a photo from a competition, be good for the infobox? -- Jao (talk) 22:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, the format is ok like that, though, in the reference section you may want to use the {{reflist2}} template, to list them in two columns. Also, an image of the competition would be good in the infobox, overall it looks very good with the improvements, just the two more things I mentioned earlier, and it should pass.SRX^--^Latino Heat 23:01, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Finally got around to it: I simply moved up the photo of Kostevych competing into the infobox. I think I've done it all now, and I think that the prominent mention of the shooting distance that I now put in the first paragraph will tell the reader what the "10 m" is all about. I also added some metric-to-imperial conversions, which some might find useful, especially now that Lightmouse removed the unit linkage. -- Jao (talk) 22:35, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It took a while, but it look's great,

Pass.--SRX^--^Latino Heat 02:07, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]