Talk:Ian Gillan Band
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Not jazz[edit]
I have removed Ian Gillan Band from Wikiproject Jazz because Ian Gillan is not a notable jazz figure according to my sources. These include the AllMusic web site and the following books which I have recently checked again. If you have several reliable sources suggesting the Ian Gillan Band made a substantial contribution to jazz, please let me know.
- Alexander, Charles. Masters of Jazz Guitar
- Barth, Joe. Voices in Jazz Guitar
- Berendt, Joachim. The Jazz Book
- Britt, Stan. The Jazz Guitarists
- Carlton, Jim. Conversations with Great Jazz and Studio Guitarists
- Cooke, Mervyn. The Cambridge Companion to Jazz
- Cooke, Mervyn. Pat Metheny: The ECM Years
- Erlewine, Michael. All Music Guide to Jazz
- Feather, Leonard. The Biographical Encyclopedia of Jazz
- Gioia, Ted. The History of Jazz
- Kernfeld, Barry Dean, ed. The New Grove Dictionary of Jazz (3 hardcover vols.)
- Kernfeld, Barry Dean. The Blackwell Guide to Recorded Jazz
- Kirchner, Bill. The Oxford Companion to Jazz
- Sallis, James. The Guitar in Jazz: An Anthology
- Sudhalter, Richard. Lost Chords
- Summers, Andy. One Train Later
- Summers, Andy, and Gibson, Ralph. Light Strings
- Yanow, Scott. The Great Jazz Guitarists
Vmavanti (talk) 03:41, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- I didn't ask you about your removal of this page from the WikiProject. I have no concern over that, and I would never claim that Gillan was a "notable jazz figure". Has anyone claimed that? I am asking why you removed the jazz rock (or jazz fusion) genre from this article. We discussed this recently at Talk:Scarabus at some considerable length, and you seemed to accept at that time that their second album at least was jazz fusion, quoting Erlewine when he said Clear Air Turbulence was "a full-fledged exploration into jazz fusion". What has changed? That alone is enough to satisfy the genre for this band for Wikipedia purposes; it is a genre that has stood uncontested since 2006. Bretonbanquet (talk) 09:22, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- I quote you from our previous discussion: " I have demonstrated clearly what Erlewine clearly has said: that the previous album could be called jazz fusion..." Bretonbanquet (talk) 09:26, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- All material on Wikipedia must be cited from independent, reliable sources. Much of this article is unsourced, meaning that material could be deleted by anyone at any time. The rest of it is poorly sourced—Angel Air Records is probably an unreliable source. This is an article about the Ian Gillan Band, not the Ian Gillan Band's albums. If you want to discuss a particular album, see the Talk page for that album. If your argument is that this article has been unchanged sine 2006 and therefore is correct, I disagree with that argument. An article that's wrong can be wrong for five seconds or 500 years and still be wrong. As to why it hasn't been changed since 2006, that would involve speculation about editors, which I have been told by two admins. amounts to a personal attack which could lead to removal from Wikipedia with or without warning. Cheers, mate.
Vmavanti (talk) 15:32, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- All material on Wikipedia must be cited from independent, reliable sources. Much of this article is unsourced, meaning that material could be deleted by anyone at any time. The rest of it is poorly sourced—Angel Air Records is probably an unreliable source. This is an article about the Ian Gillan Band, not the Ian Gillan Band's albums. If you want to discuss a particular album, see the Talk page for that album. If your argument is that this article has been unchanged sine 2006 and therefore is correct, I disagree with that argument. An article that's wrong can be wrong for five seconds or 500 years and still be wrong. As to why it hasn't been changed since 2006, that would involve speculation about editors, which I have been told by two admins. amounts to a personal attack which could lead to removal from Wikipedia with or without warning. Cheers, mate.
- You'll see that Robman94 has kindly added references to this article so that side of your comment has been addressed. My argument is not that it has been unchanged since 2006 therefore it is correct. I was merely pointing out that in nearly thirteen years, no reader has declared a problem with it, not even yourself during the lengthy discussion we had on this very subject back in October last year. Your last point about speculation about editors, admins and personal attacks, I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean. I don't see that you have made any personal attacks on this occasion, so no need for concern on your part yet.
- You have accepted in the past (and I quoted you) that at least one of the IGB's albums can be classed as jazz fusion, and you even provided a source for it (Allmusic). I provided this source for all three albums being jazz rock, which you removed from the article in which I placed it. Am I to understand that, even if all the IGB's output can be reliably sourced as jazz rock or jazz fusion, that this would not be sufficient for you? Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:08, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- Using Gillan's autobiography in an article about Gillan is probably unwise, especially considering some of the material is being challenged. This article needs more sources. This sentence is unsourced:"The band had some success in Japan but none at all in North America and only cult status in Europe, their jazz fusion direction unappealing to pop and rock fans alike." This sentence is unsourced: "Their next album, Scarabus (1977), had more of a rock sound but retained the jazz fusion direction". I don't know how to make this any clearer. All material on Wikipedia must be sourced from independent, reliable sources. That means several. Not one. Not one autobiographical one. Challenged material in particular must be sourced. See the documentation for help on sources.
Vmavanti (talk) 23:42, 20 March 2019 (UTC)- I'm assuming this comment is aimed at Robman94 as he is the editor concerned with the article body. Are you going to address my comment? Bretonbanquet (talk) 16:13, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- Using Gillan's autobiography in an article about Gillan is probably unwise, especially considering some of the material is being challenged. This article needs more sources. This sentence is unsourced:"The band had some success in Japan but none at all in North America and only cult status in Europe, their jazz fusion direction unappealing to pop and rock fans alike." This sentence is unsourced: "Their next album, Scarabus (1977), had more of a rock sound but retained the jazz fusion direction". I don't know how to make this any clearer. All material on Wikipedia must be sourced from independent, reliable sources. That means several. Not one. Not one autobiographical one. Challenged material in particular must be sourced. See the documentation for help on sources.