Talk:Iranian nationalism

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Untitled[edit]

Who is Richard W. Cottman???

First paragraph/ intro[edit]

I suggest that the first paragraph lead-in be more similar to intros found in other wiki articles in reference (e.g.) to American nationalism or Irish Nationalism.

Those article begin as stating: American Nationalism "American nationalism refers to nationalism among the people of the United States. Nationalism is the correct and recognized term for the associated ideology and political movements, within the present United States, and during its history."

Irish Nationalism "Irish nationalism (Irish: Náisiúnachas Éireannach) comprises political and social movements and sentiment inspired by a love for Irish culture, language and history, and a sense of pride in Ireland and the Irish people. Today, the term generally refers to support for a united Ireland."

As it stands, the article seems to contend that Iranian nationalism began in 1925 with Reza Shah and the Constitutional Monarchy. While it is indeed true that Reza Shah was a staunch nationalist, Iranian nationalism was evident earlier during the mid-1800s with the ascension of Amir Kabir during the Qajar dynasty.

Moreover, it is seems better to first define and provide an appropriate classification of Iranian Nationalism and to then, in a following section, elaborate on its origins.

So I suggest: "Iranian nationalism refers to nationalism among the people of Iran and individuals whose national identity is Iranian. Iranian nationalism is comprised of political and social movements and sentiments prompted by a love for Iranian (or Persian culture), language and history, and a sense of pride in Iran and Iranian (or Persian) people."

As anyone can see, it is merger and incorporation of the two article intros above.

Thoughts, suggestions? GoetheFromm (talk) 12:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I have said below. Persian culture and language as well as people are completely different from Iranian. Persian is a part of Iranian peoples and languages and culture however to say it is it is wrong. For there are many cultures that form Iranian culture for example Kurdish and Turkish. I think we must first reach a consensus regarding weather to actualy call this Iranian nationalism. This is because policiies placed in effect by the Pahlavi's show a distinct form of Persian nationalism, where pre-islamic history is glorified and certain ethnic minorities are supressed.Regards, Tugrulirmak (talk) 20:22, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Expansion[edit]

Reading this article I was thinking that surely iranian nationalism can't be limited to the past three centuries. In my experience of Iranian history Iranians/Persians have had a sense of self and place in the world, from the Hakhamaneshid kings calling people of all of the nations under their control to the court, to the sassanid distinction between Iran and aniran to the shu'ubiye cultural and political movement and revival of interest in pre-islamic iran during the 8th and 11th centuries. Perhaps the incorporation of shiism into the iranian identity should also be discussed. Not to be forgotten is the impact of iranian nationalism on iranian politics e.g. mossadeq and Amir Kabir.Karafs (talk) 23:01, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Iranian or Persian[edit]

I belive the article confuses the two terms. Iranian from what I know releates to the citezens of Iran. These include; Kurds, Turks, Arabs and Persians... However Persian refers to an ethnicity. Therefore we either have to say Persian culture (something of the sort) or Iranian, for the two are distinctly seperate terms. The subject I belive is indeed Persian nationalism as we can see from the policies placed forward by the Pahlavi dynasty, this would warrant a change in the articles title also. Regards, Tugrulirmak (talk) 20:14, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are simply incorrect. Pahlavi policy was not about "Persian Nationalism" at all. Quite the contrary. This is in fact one the most widely understood policies of the Pahlavi dynasty. Pahlavi's placed the notion of Iranian nationality above all else. In other words, all ethnicities - especially Azeri's, Persians, and Kurds (Medes, Persians, Parthians as native Iranians) were encouraged to make contribution to larger society based on their common Aryan lineage. One of the most documented phenomena of that time was brining the Jewish population of Iran from the slums and reintroducing them into the wider society with active roles. These are all well documented. I haven't come across a single document from Pahlavi era that even uses the word "Persian nationalism". Though, you have to remember something important here. When one talks about the Persian history, one is not exclusively talking about a specific time period that relates only to "Persians". But rather, the history of Iran in it's totality. For example, Cyrus the Great mother - Queen Mandana of Media was from Atropatene. His father Cambyses the Elder and his grandfather Cyrus I were mixed Parthian and Persian. The history of the Iranian people - being Azeri, Persian and Kurds are entirely mixed. Indeed they also fall in the same genetic category of J2-M172. NuturalObserver (talk) 15:09, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's a load of crock. The "Persian nation" may not have been explicitly used by no one doubts which group The Pahlavi shahs had in mind when they spoke of "Iranian nationalism." It meant the Persian ethnic group and the Persian cultural identity going back to the Achaemenid Empire. It meant Zoroastrianism. And it meant enforcing the Persian language. All other ethnic groups were expected to assimilate and adopt the Iranian-Persian identity as the identity of the nation, and downplay their regional languages and cultures. Even today, exiles from Pahlavi Iran stress their "Persian" identity, "Persian" history, etc. Racial mixture among national icons or nationalist leaders doesn't demonstrate lack of national identity. Many of the founders of Turkish nationalism as expressed by the Young Turks, etc were not ethnic Turks but of converted Greek or Kurdish Muslim background. Ziya Gokalp for instance was of Kurdish descent. Yet they enforced a Turkish national identity that all groups were forced to embrace, including Kurds. Refusal to follow this chauvinistic policy led to suppression and persecution. Arab nationalists often look up to heroes like Saladin as their own even though he was Kurdish (a fact Arab nationalist writers and theorists were actually aware of, yet for them Arab was not racial but cultural and linguistic). Sati' al-Husri, one of the theorists of Arab nationalism (there were so many) was of Ottoman background and his first language was Turkish. Many of the others were of Greek Orthodox Christian background like Constantine Zurayq, Michel Aflaq, Edmond Rabbath, Amin Rihani, Jurji Zaydan, etc. During Saddam's reign, his Arabization policies were meant to force non-Arab Sunni Muslims and Christians to adopt an Arab linguistic and ethnic identity like the Kurds and Assyrian Christians (who were erroneously identified by the state as "Arab Christians" despite not being Arab), with groups they were at war with like the Persians were expelled and deported from Iraq. The Pahlavi Shahs renamed plenty of sites in Iran after pre-Islamic Persian figures and place names. Even if those bodies of water never bore those names before. The Shatt al Arab was renamed Arvand Rud (even though the term Arvand originally referred to the Tigris river in general and not the Shatt al-Arab; not unlike how Arabs began calling the Persian Gulf "Arab"). Arabistan was re-named Khuzestan. The first Pahlavi Shah set up a Persian language academy to remove Arabic and Turkish words from the Persian language and replace them with older Persian alternatives. So please, spare me this bullshit that Iranian nationalism had nothing to do with Persian bias and Persian supremacy. If it was just about the Iranian peoples, Kurds would not have had the grievance against the Iranian state that they did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.207.162.108 (talk) 19:29, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merge[edit]

This article should be merged with Pan-Iranism, in that they feature similar themes.

Iranian Nationalism refers to nationalism inside borders of Iran among the Iranians but Pan-Iranism is theory that all countries with Iranian or similar cultures should be united as one country.Pouyakhani (talk) 10:27, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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