Talk:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip

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Notification of page move[edit]

@ElijahPepe I moved the page to the new title as Israel has invaded Gaza multiple times in the past. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 18:20, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is this article necessary?[edit]

The 2023 Israeli ground operations in the Gaza Strip article already exists and there's already another article in draftspace right now: Draft:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip. I guess the main question is whether the recent actions are the much touted "invasion of Gaza." David O. Johnson (talk) 22:18, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is a question I've also wondered for several hours now. The conclusion I came to is that the actions taken by the Israel Defense Force constitute an invasion, but are far from the full-scale ground incursion that many are expecting. Israel is not framing this as an invasion, for what it's worth. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:41, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
ElijahPepe and David O. Johnson Article was redirected. Draft:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip was created in draft-space on purpose as it is an expected event under WP:FUTURE. The background section can be worked on and ironed out in the draft space and when the invasion actually begins, it can be moved into mainspace maybe at least start class or C class rather than a stub. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 22:44, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I just saw your message now. Again, I've seen several sources refer to this as an invasion. Whether to redirect is a matter of discussion and should not be decided without consensus. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:51, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The draft-article was created yesterday and is better formatted than this stub. This is exactly why the stub was created...To prevent an argument like this in mainspace prior to a solid RS consensus on "invasion beginning". The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 22:54, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The draft is irrelevant here, and I didn't write anything apart from the lede sentence. It appears as though you believe this article is intended to cover the full ground incursion that is likely. I created this article because this appears to be an invasion. To reiterate: the sources I've read have suggested this is an invasion, including Bloomberg News and Axios. Regardless, this is the second phase of Israel's response and should have a separate article. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:03, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is the problem. Sources may "suggest" it, but do not state it, aka WP:SYNTH/WP:OR. In fact, that Axios source you mentioned only has a single time the word "invasion" in mentioned and it is used here: Iran-backed Hezbollah in Lebanon and Tehran have both warned Israel against launching an invasion of Gaza. The title of that Axios article is Israel moves to "new phase" of war with Hamas in major incursion in Gaza. Basically, your argument is synthesizing what sources are trying to say, rather than saying what they actually say. If you want this to be an article, you need to provide a lot of RS sources which specifically state the invasion began. Quoting someone about it doesn't count either. The sources themsevles have to specifically state it. Honestly, I just recommend working on that draft article until it is very clear through RS that the invasion began. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:14, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, this article from The Times of Israel [1] refers to a "limited but protracted incursion", while this one [2] phrases it as an "expanding ground offensive." On the other hand, The Jerusalem Post is calling it a "ground invasion" [3]. I don't know what to think. Would it help if we brought in other editors and see what their thoughts are on it? David O. Johnson (talk) 04:52, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Noting for the record that ElijahPepe has gone ahead and conducted a 2nd revert and got this article back into mainspace. Whenever (hopefully soon) someone else decides to challenge this being in mainspace yet, please redirect it to the ground operation article and copy whatever is in this article in the draft article, Draft:Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip. I already did my 1RR on this and I highly doubt this needs to be in mainspace yet. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 04:37, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We have Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip and 2023 Israeli ground operations in the Gaza Strip, I asked on the main war page for thoughts on how the war should be divided up, article wise.
    From my perspective, there should be one title, not two, I have no fixed view on what the title should be, I do think we should not be waiting for the Israeli side to say there is an invasion, we didn't wait for them to say there was a war. I tend to think that what is clear is there is an attack on the Gaza Strip and that it doesn't really matter whether it is by land sea air or underground. Selfstudier (talk) 14:08, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Having two separate articles (Invasion and Ground Ops) that say the exact same is unnecessary and could be confusing for readers. Unless there is a significant difference between Israeli ground operations in the Gaza Strip and the invasion of the Gaza Strip, this article should be nominated for speedy deletion or be merged with Israeli ground operations. Not to mention this article isn't Extended Protected. - MateoFrayo (talk) 14:27, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nominate for deletion?[edit]

I'd say we should nominate this for deletion. Most sources say that Israel is expanding their ground operations. Sources that say it's an invasion for the headlines say inside that the situation is ambiguous. Most of this article is just stuff from the ground ops article and airstrikes. The consensus seems to be that this doesn't need to be here. We should discuss in a deletion nomination Personisinsterest (talk) 18:21, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's not clear to me which should be kept under which title, perhaps the way would be to nominate both for deletion and let editors decide which if any should be merged, deleted, whatever. Selfstudier (talk) 18:29, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 February 2024[edit]

Please add {{subst:Long Comment}} to the bottom of the page. Unless that is additional entries cause the pagesize to exceed 256 bytes while this request is pending, in which case it may be ignored. 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:1172:DF6B:3030:BF40 (talk) 00:35, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done * Pppery * it has begun... 00:37, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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