Talk:J. K. Rowling/Archive 18

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The Wikipedia Library

The Wikipedia Library is really an excellent resource to use. Access seems to be dependent of activity and some may need to apply for access. To access a collection, do the following:

1. Go to the Wikipedia Library portal
2. Sign in to access the "My collections" page
3. Scroll through the "My collections" page to find Project Muse (or Ebscohost or any other)
   1. If it's not there, then you need to submit an application.
4. Click "Access collection" >> brings you to ProjectMuse (or Ebscohost of any other collection) search page

This will help to collect the type of sources we need. Victoria (tk) 14:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Just signed up, thanks! WikiFouf (talk) 21:19, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

General feedback needed

• It’s looking better, nice job. I have one major criticism: the actors who didn’t support Rowling are in the main text, the others are merely a note. It seems clearly biased and unfair. I also think with some actors there is more nuance; e.g. Redmayne also criticised hate against her I’ve compiled a list .which you could use if you wish here: — Scientelensia 14:35, May 6, 2024 — continues after insertion below

As per SandyGeorgia

Experienced and renowned user SandyGeorgia disagreed with my criticism and pointed out that it was not logically following the above discussion. So they have instructed me to make this box. I would love to hear people’s feedback on my suggested edits, as I was genuinely trying to help and do not wish to be silenced. – Scientelensia Support The actors listed beneath have spoken out in support of Rowling. Helena Bonham Carter Helena Bonham Carter, who plays Bellatrix Lestrange, has defended Rowling, stating that the author had been “hounded” by detractors and that the “judgmentalism of people” had been “taken to the extreme”. Furthermore, she also added that she felt that lead actors Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson and Rupert Grint, who all condemn her comments, “should let her [Rowling] have her opinions”, but that the three actors were all “very aware of protecting their own fanbase and their generation”. Ralph Fiennes Ralph Fiennes, who plays Lord Voldemort, had expressed support for Rowling, stating that he could not “understand the vitriol directed at her," in an interview with The Telegraph in 2021. He added that though he could “understand the heat of an argument”, he found “this age of accusation and the need to condemn irrational” and also found “the level of hatred that people express about views that differ from theirs, and the violence of language toward others, disturbing”. Robbie Coltrane Robbie Coltrane, the late actor who played Rubeus Hagrid, stated that he didn’t think what Rowling said was “offensive” and that there was “a whole Twitter generation of people who hang around waiting to be offended” and that they should “get over [it]”. Miriam Margolyes Miriam Margolyes, who played Ponoma Sprout, never directly expressed an opinion on her beliefs on transgender rights, instead saying that there wasn’t “one answer to all these trans questions”. However, she stated that she believed the “vituperation that JK Rowling has received is misplaced”. Refuting claims of the writer’s unkindness, Margolyes described Rowling as “a generous woman” and a “brilliant writer”. The actor also offered to mediate between Rowling and Emma Watson. Condemnation The actors listed beneath have condemned or disagreed with Rowling’s comments. Daniel Radcliffe Daniel Radcliffe, who plays the titular character Harry Potter, stated that while Rowling was “unquestionably responsible for the course my life has taken”, he felt “compelled” as “a human being” to say “something at this moment”. Writing that issue was not about “in-fighting between JK Rowling and” himself, Radcliffe expressed his belief that “transgender women are women. Any statement to the contrary erases the identity and dignity of transgender people and goes against all advice given by professional health care associations who have far more expertise on this subject matter than either Jo or I.” The Harry Potter actor then took the opportunity to apologise for those fans of the novel on behalf of Rowling, saying he hoped the comments would not “taint” readers’ experiences, adding also that if a reader believed “that a particular character is trans, nonbinary, or gender fluid, or that they are gay or bisexual” then this was “sacred”. Radcliffe also quoted statistics concerning transgender people from the Trevor Project in an article on the Trevor Project’s website. Emma Watson Emma Watson, who plays Hermione Granger, expressed her belief in a Tweet that trans people “are who they say they are”, highlighting her support for a Gender Self-ID policy, and that they “deserve to live their lives without being constantly questioned” or “told they aren’t who they say they are". Later, during the 2022 BAFTAs, Watson stated that she was there “for all the witches” in an apparent dig at the Rowling. Rupert Grint Rupert Grint, who plays Ron Weasley, stated that he “firmly” stood “with the trans community", adding that he believed “trans women are women” and “trans men are men”. Despite this, Grint also likened Rowling to an auntie, saying that he didn’t “necessarily agree with everything my auntie says” that that she was “still my auntie”. The actor also admitted that the problem was “a tricky one”. Eddie Redmayne Eddie Redmayne, who plays Newt Scamander, stated when approached for comment that he disagreed with Rowling’s comments, adding that he believed that trans women “are women, trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid”. However, later, in an interview with the Daily Mail, he expressed his disappoint with those directing “vitriol” and “absolutely disgusting” criticism at the Harry Potter author, despite his opposing views. Bonnie Wright Bonnie Wright, who plays Ginny Weasley, tweeted in relation to Rowling’s comments that “trans women are women” while expressing her recognition of transgender people. Positions of Neutrality The actors listed beneath have expressed neutral views on Rowling’s comments. However, it should be noted that these positions of neutrality are relative; therefore, the views expressed here may be leaning towards a certain opinion. Tom Felton Tom Felton, who plays Draco Malfoy, when approached for comment, declined to state his opinion but mentioned that nobody had “single-handedly done more for bringing joy to so many different generations and walks of life” than the writer of the Harry Potter book series. Jason Isaacs Jason Isaacs, who plays Lucius Malfoy, expressed his unwillingness to express a clear viewpoint, stating that he didn’t “want to get drawn into the trans issues” because of his belief that doing such would be like walking into “an extraordinary minefield”. Despite saying that Rowling’s opinions and his “differ in many different areas”, he also declared that he himself would not be “jumping to stab her in the front — or back”. Moreover, Isaacs also stated that one of the things he felt people should know about Rowling was that “she poured an enormous amount of her fortune into making the world a much better place, for hundreds of thousands of vulnerable children through her charity Lumos”. References References Not sure whether it is just me but it does feel weighted against Rowling. Organisations or people supporting her are not/are barely mentioned, criticism is greatly. Especially in the last paragraph, which is not an improvement from before imo. Transgender section If I could propose an amendation… This section: “After the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 had come into force in April 2024, Rowling, who resides in Edinburgh, tested the law by posting on X a list of transgender women, and wrote that they were "men, every last one of them". Police Scotland stated it had not received any complaints over the posts and that "no action [would] be taken" as they were not illegal.” Could be rewritten: After the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 had come into force in April 2024, Rowling, who resides in Edinburgh,took to X to criticise the bill, stating that "freedom of speech and belief" was at an end if accurate description of biological sex was outlawed. She further posted a list of transgender women, and wrote that they were "men, every last one of them". Rowling also said: "Scottish lawmakers seem to have placed higher value on the feelings of men performing their idea of femaleness, however misogynistically or opportunistically, than on the rights and freedoms of actual women and girls." Rowling also invited the police to arrest her if they believed she has committed an offence, saying that she "[looked] forward to being arrested" upon her return to Scotland. Police Scotland stated it had not received any complaints over the posts and that "no action [would] be taken" as they were not illegal. Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Rishi Sunak supported Rowling, saying that people should not be criminalised "for stating simple facts on biology" and that the United Kingdom had a proud tradition of free speech. Or possibly without the last sentence? Do provide your thoughts! What do you think, @SandyGeorgia? Scientelensia (talk) 14:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC) Scientelensia, you don't seem to be following the discussion, and you've just filled the talk page with off-topic. I will remind you of your previous topic ban on your talk page, and ask that you hat this off-topic distraction. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC) I know I have a previous ban (a long while ago) that you later admitted was harsh, but that does not disqualify me from offering an opinion? I don’t think this is off-topic, I am providing info and compiled info that you can use if you wish. I also suggested a rewrite of one paragraph, is that wrong. I maybe have a differing opinion to you but please don’t ignore me. If you are going to, I have one request and that is that you hear what I am saying here: I have one major criticism: the actors who didn’t support Rowling are in the main text, the others are merely a note. It seems clearly biased and unfair. I also think with some actors there is more nuance; e.g. Redmayne also criticised hate against her I’ve compiled a list which you could use if you wish here: I don’t quite understand what you mean (“ask that you hat this off-topic distraction”). Do you want me to explain why it should be useful or do you want be to remove/strike it and no longer give opinions which are not the norm on this page? I don’t know what you mean by ‘hat’. Best, – Scientelensia (talk) 15:22, 6 May 2024 (UTC) Having said that, I should have filed my general criticism under a new section, good spot. Scientelensia (talk) 15:23, 6 May 2024 (UTC) What do you think if my rewritten para? Scientelensia (talk) 15:24, 6 May 2024 (UTC) Continued on your talk. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:54, 6 May 2024 (UTC) References

Scientelensia, following on the discussion on your talk page, would you mind if this section is archived so you can start over as you wish? This talk page is very long already, and we still have work to do. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:53, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia, go right ahead, good idea. Apologies for the congestion. I have summarised my points in a new section above (without the extra info). From Scientelensia (Talk) 19:03 7 May 2024 (UTC)

"She has publicly expressed her opinions on transgender people and related civil rights since 2017."

This sentence in the lead is very weasel word-y, isn't it? "expressed her opinions" is such a vague way of describing active attacks - it doesn't even make it clear if she's for or against trans people - and it goes on to carefully isolate criticism. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.9% of all FPs.} 13:43, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

If you could please read the work progressing on the talk page, it would help towards not bloating an already lengthy talk page with dated commentary. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:10, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't see how noting a particular point about the lead - and noting a tag being added - is redundant to other sections not talking about the specific wording. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.9% of all FPs.} 18:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@Adam Cuerden I do not understand which of "She has publicly expressed her opinions on transgender people and related civil rights since 2017." are weasel words; especially as the following sentences contain [partial] information on how other people have interpreted these publicly-expressed opinions, and events which have followed. Bazza 7 (talk) 13:32, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Nor do I, but since that phrase is nowhere in any of the proposed drafts, the section is just distracting from work being done. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

It's vague to the point of meaningless on what her views are. It's functionally identical to "She said something", not making it at all clear what her views are. Weasel words are using vague language that substitutes for actually saying anything on a point.

As the lead stands, the transphobia section consists of two sentences, where the entire content is:

• "She publicly said some undefined opinions about transpeople since 2017"
• Some people don't like what she said.

I mean, there's some attempts to list what groups dislike her views (some worked into the weasel word "critics"), but it doesn't really say anything about what Rowling actually said, thinks, or did. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.9% of all FPs.} 21:14, 4 May 2024 (UTC)