Talk:James Hobart

Year of death

Jeremy Butler The year of death is puzzling to me, because I wonder why the church that has his tomb would have the wrong year of death. It's also troubling that the National Trust would have the wrong year. However, there could be a mix-up based upon his year of resignation as attorney general - and sources that say that he worked up until his death.

Death in 1507

• According to this book, the church with his tomb says he died in 1507
• National Trust paintings - year of death is 1507 here and here
• DNB, albeit published in 1891, shows 1507
• This book from 1807 says 1507
• and there are more. 275 books for "James Hobart" 1507, some of which are his resignation and they could have match for another 1507 occurrence that is unrelated to Hobart

Resignation in 1507

• This books says that there was a sudden resignation by Hobart in 1507
• Resignation as attorney-general in 1507
• Says he resigned in 1507 and died in 1517

Death in 1517

• There was a judge, Sir James Hobart who died in 1517, but I haven't seen that this James Hobart was a judge
• This shows year of death as 1517, but it has a similar, but different image of Sir and Lady Hobart in prayer (of course, two paintings could have been made)
• This 1895 book states he died February 23, 1517
• And, a 1989 book says 1517
• and there are more. 93 books for "James Hobart" 1517 - but like the 1507 records, they could have match for another 1517 occurrence that is unrelated to Hobart

Based on this, it seems that there are a couple of options:

1. show both years with their own citations, using recent and reliable sources for the year of death, perhaps keeping the note to offer more of an explanation
2. leave only the year 1517 and add the info about the 1507 resignation to the note in the article about the discrepancy between the years.

What do you think?--CaroleHenson (talk) 11:45, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I updated the numbers above after I ran the queries with his name in quotes. Now the numbers tell a different story.--CaroleHenson (talk) 11:56, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Wow! I'm impressed, CaroleHenson, with how much information you came up with in less than 24 hours! The year of death is puzzling and sources are quite contradictory. I could go with either option you suggest, but I lean toward #2 because I place greatest trust in the date of the will. I hope, this afternoon, to check out Richmond's book from a local library. If the bequests in the will line up with what we know about Sir James's family, then it seems likely that it is the will for "our" James Hobart. Incidentally, I became interested in James Hobart because he is my 13th great-grandfather. I've been recently researching him online and on ancestry.com. On the latter, I noted that The Millennium File, created by Heritage Consulting (Salt Lake City, UT), puts the death at 1517. The sources you dug up are a big help to my genealogical research! You found them so quickly! Are you a historian of English politics and nobility? --regards, Jeremy Butler 12:53, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Jeremy Butler,

ok #2 it is

yes I am - at least one of the branches is through Katherine Swynford and John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, who was the son of Edward III of England.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:23, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Great! Maybe more later, after my trip to the University of Alabama library! --Jeremy Butler 16:43, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Ok, sounds great!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:33, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

My library trip yielded several recent history books that put the death date as 1517—including Gunn's 2016 history which goes into some detail about why Sir James lost his job as attorney-general. Also, I found that the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography from 2004/2008 prefers the 1517 death date and has quite a bit of information in its Sir James entry that might be used to fill out this article. So, I feel confident that 1517 is correct. We might even want to move our footnote about it to the talk page. Thanks for your assistance with this article! --Jeremy Butler 21:03, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Jeremy Butler, Excellent! Regarding the year of death and Moreover, the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography provides the death as February 24, 1527. Is this a typo? I don't have access to Oxford DNB, but when I click on the link to the article, I get a summary that says he died in 1517. It also says that this James Hobart is a judge, which is another issue/question.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:40, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Hey, CaroleHenson! Yeah, my typo. 1517 is correct. My University provides ODNB access. Sir James has a fairly lengthy, 7-paragraph entry in it. It says, "It has been suggested that the high-profile [bishop of Norwich, Richard] Nix prosecution led to Hobart's resignation or dismissal in 1507.... Sir James died on 24 February 1517 and was buried in a chapel he built on the north side of the nave of Norwich Cathedral but the chapel has not survived, nor have his tomb and military brass. A number of painted panels exist, showing Sir James in armour with a heraldic tabard, and his wife in a heraldic mantle (for instance at Blickling Hall, Loddon church, and Lincoln's Inn)." Our article is certainly shaping up—considering that it was just a stub a few days ago! (Incidentally, I did a bit more genealogical digging and found that Sir James is my 14th great UNCLE! I'm descended from his older brother, William.)--Jeremy Butler 23:18, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Very cool, Jeremy Butler, and great work! I think I read that he got into hot water for pressing the churches in England for taxes - and it became a political land-mine. Yes, it is shaping up, and it's fun that it's a relative of yours.--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:50, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Marriages

The DNB does not always get everything right. Remember it is a single individual writing these articles in the DNB. They make mistakes. It was James, either the son or the grandson, who married Dorothy, daughter of Sir John Glemham of Glemham. This James held the manor of Morley in Norfolk and was buried there in 1552. Dorothy was buried there 3rd October 1543. Sir James the attorney appears to have had an eldest son Henry who held Hales Hall in Loddon after his father. Henry's daughter Elizabeth was living there in 1553. Another of Sir James's sons was Miles, who resided at Plumstead and died before Feb 1557.2A00:23C4:B607:CF00:556B:FE92:8F0F:376C (talk) 08:15, 17 May 2020 (UTC)