Talk:Jean-Luc Mélenchon

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Untitled[edit]

Is this surname pronounced with soft ch (like English sh) or hard (like k)? 195.72.173.52 (talk) 10:43, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

'ch' in French is like 'sh' in English. --78.109.80.118 (talk) 18:27, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
True, we pronounce the French way ch in French = sh in English, but the name is Spanish.90.22.28.214 (talk) 21:54, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Translated|fr|Jean-Luc Mélenchon — Preceding unsigned comment added by Culloty82 (talk • contribs) 19:53, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tangier was not part of 'French Morocco'[edit]

Morocco in times of the protectorate was divided in a larger "French" zone, a smaller "Spanish" zone and the free city of Tangier. So he was born in Morocco but not in 'French Morocco' (neither 'Spanish Morocco' either). --85.84.229.109 (talk) 22:15, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Death[edit]

He died today. [1] Alts (talk) 12:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

haha ! yoru link gives "anticipated obituary". Everyday is there the day of the death of any living person, so they'll be automatically right when people will really die... Noben k (talk) 01:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Comments[edit]

There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:11, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Freemason" category?[edit]

Currently, Mélenchon's article is in the category of "French Freemasons"? Is this genuine? I was under the impression that the French left (left of the social democrats) were anti-masonic since the 1920s. Even Trotsky condemned freemasonry (I notice Mélenchon was a Trotskyite in the 1970s). There are a few websites which mention his Masonic links but how reliable? This video? Claíomh Solais (talk) 16:55, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-German sentiment[edit]

For what it's worth, this Guardian article cites Mélenchon's own 2015 book Bismarck’s Herring (The German Poison) (published in 2016 in paperback as Le hareng de Bismarck : Le poison allemande, ISBN: 978-2290127940) as the source of his anti-German sentiments. JezGrove (talk) 19:38, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

this section is unsatisfactory, as a long accusation of anti german sentiment is not balanced by quotes from Mélenchon's people.2A01:CB08:634:DA00:3829:BB97:D187:78A1 (talk) 10:28, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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CRIF, Vel d'hiv, Corbyn[edit]

This section should be deleted, or at least extensively rewritten. CRIF doesn't "represent French Jews," it has no official mandate. Its links to the Likud are well known. No one has in good faith ever accused Mélenchon of being an antisemite. This is explicitely mentioned in the French version of the page. Daily newspaper France Soir wrote that "aucun des interlocuteurs contactés par le journal n'accuse Jean-Luc Mélenchon d'antisémitisme, ni ne le sous-entend." It should be noted that Mélenchon recently (2020) criticized the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran for having the destruction of Israel as one of the pillars of its regime, calling it an "unbearable project that creates extraordinary tensions in the region".

I have moved this section to its correct place in the chronology. The English Wikipedia article about Mélenchon uses reliable sources to make the claims to which you object. In fact, the French version of the page is not free of assertions about Mélenchon alleged attitude, even if the equivalent section begins with the article you mention. "Charges of antisemitismtism" ("Accusations d'antisémitisme") would not be a suitable title for the section here as the content is rather different. I have changed the heading to "CRIF, the Holocaust and alleged antisemitism" which describes the content. Whether or not CRIF has a close connection with Likud, is not of immediate concern here. Philip Cross (talk) 12:30, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Philip, I appreciate you taking the time to look into this:
First, it is factually incorrect to write that CRIF "represents French Jews." The "représentative" in the name means representative of a coalition of different organizations. The phrasing in the article gives the impression that CRIF has some kind of official legitimacy and speaks in the name of France's Jewish community as a whole. This is not the case. While CRIF carries some weight in the French political landscape (thanks, it is argued, to its close connections to the party of Israel's prime minister), it's support is marginal among French Jews. Second, simply including "the Holocaust" in the title may give the impression that Melenchon is a Holocaust denier, which is obviously false and certainly doesn't reflect the content of the section. Melenchon's position on this matter is that of French officials since De Gaulle, namely that the Vichy regime was illegal. For the French State to formally recognize responsibilities in the deportation of the Jews would be to legitimize the Vichy regime. Third, it is incorrect to write that Melenchon "criticised UK Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn for apologising for antisemitism in his party." Melenchon denounced the antisemitism accusations against Corbyn as a smear campaign and said that he himself, having learned from the Corbyn precedent, wouldn't apologize if the same tactic was to be used against him. The Telegraph article cited in the section reports: "The Labour defeat “must serve as a lesson”, said Mr Mélenchon". It is not the same as criticizing Corbyn for doing what he did. The phrasing should be amended. Melenchon later published a post on his blog denouncing the use of antisemitism as a political weapon, asking whether the same strategy would be used against Bernie Sanders in the US presidential elections. He called the "method ... absurd, offending, but more importantly, dangerous. For all this is at the expense of the real fight against antisemitism. Its main result is to lower the vigilance threshold of sincere anti-racists." 18:00, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
The use of the word "pogroms," quoted from the Paul Berman piece, to describe the 2014 demonstrations is questionable at best. This piece hardly qualifies as a reliable source and IMO should be replaced with a more objective assessment. 19:00, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Iran[edit]

I added a section with Melenchon's comments on the Iranian regime following the death of Soleimani. 15:40, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

WP:UNDUE issues[edit]

The Foreign Policy section of the article contains the following:

Commenting for The Guardian in April 2017, Natalie Nougayrède, a former executive editor and managing editor of Le Monde,[63] noted:

"In his 2015 book Bismarck’s Herring, Mélenchon wrote that, 'Germany is again a danger', its 'imperialism' is 'returning', and the EU is its 'new empire'. He's described Germans as 'grumbling Teutons' who seek to 'deport' their old people to Eastern Europe or Thailand. And he's written that German 'expansionism' was at work in the country's 1990 reunification – an 'annexation' of East Germany, in his words. That, in itself, is no small rewriting of history, and no small denial of a people's freely expressed will after the fall of communism. His criticism of Angela Merkel's eurozone policies goes far beyond the economic. It peddles nationalistic, if not bigoted, hatreds. He may have tried to soften that impression by saying he wants 'the peoples of Europe' to revolt against their governments – and not start to fight among themselves. But he has hardly backtracked on any of his earlier statements. Much of this echoes and amplifies Le Pen's rhetoric, rather than helping to combat it."

Its completely unreasonable to have such a gargantuan quotation in the article, especially when it is clearly in violation of WP:NPOV, as well as WP:DUEWEIGHT Reflecktor (talk) 11:33, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]


sources[edit]

It seems to me there are far too many journalistic sources, often based on a sentence or two JLM said and far too few quotations from his many books and articles 2A01:CB08:8BE:AA00:F485:76F2:A8D8:DC0C (talk) 09:09, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A remark[edit]

The Guardian has published an article inviting French people whose views align with the newspaper's own ideology and assumptions to give their analysis on the current French elections. One of the contributors explains that she voted for Anne Hidalgo, partly or mainly because Hidalgo is an immigrant like herself, and adds: "Most people of my political inclinations voted for Mélenchon, but I couldn’t bring myself to support someone who has an “Accusations of anti-semitism” section on his Wikipedia page".
I just thought I would point that out as a reminder of the need for us to be very careful in biographical articles on living people, that we don't smear them. Mélenchon is clearly and obviously not an anti-Semite, and any person with even a basic understanding of his views understands easily what he meant in the comments that have been misinterpreted against him. But the false accusation itself has led that voter at least to (unthinkingly) assume the worst about him. Aridd (talk) 12:55, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely, and most of the section is pretty bad WP:OR. The first paragraph just repeats political attacks by opponents, which were themselves criticized for being cynical. It merits one sentence, if that. The third paragraph is a matter of national policy, and it is WP:OR for us to frame it as antisemitism. The fourth paragraph is about a Jewish organization being criticized for politicizing a tragedy in their attempt to bar Mélenchon from a protest march. The fifth paragraph is about him defending Jeremy Corbyn against critics. Why we frame these as accusations of antisemitism, I have no idea. The sources don't. The last paragraph is better than the rest, but still relies partially on the opinions of political opponents. We should trim and rely on proper scholarly sourcing.
And it's also a WP:CSECTION to structure the article in this way. Either it should go in the chronology, or it should go in a "Public image" section, where that is surely not the only thing to write about. DFlhb (talk) 16:53, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll leave my comment as is, but reading it again, I can't fully stand behind it. The French article has a longer section on it, with perfectly fine sourcing. I no longer think there's a BLP issue that would merit content removal as opposed to incremental replacement and improvement. DFlhb (talk) 00:38, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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