Talk:John Monash

Image

That's a much better picture, but it's clearly the property of the AWM, and I suspect the Wikipedia copyright police will make you take it down. Adam 12:12, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

From the AWM website:

You DO NOT have to seek permission to use the Memorial’s images for your personal, non-commercial use or use within your organisation. The watermark MUST NOT be covered, removed or edited.

I figured WP's {{msg:noncommercial}} covered it but this is my first attempt at uploading other peoples' work so I could well be wrong. As for the copyright of the image, if the portrait's copyright is held by the Crown then the copyright lasts 50 years from the making (according to http://www.awm.gov.au/shop/legal/copyright.asp ) so should now be clear. Or perhaps not. If it's in dispute, I can contact the AWM and ask. Geoff 00:18, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I didn't realise the AWM are so liberal with the use of their images. Now it's a question of whether posting the pic at a free but public encyclopaedia constitutes "personal, non-commercial use." It's at least debateable that it is, so you are probably safe.

Australian Copyright Council website http://www.copyright.org.au Information Sheet "Duration of Copyright" contains the statement that if copyright on a photograph expired prior to 1 January 2005, when the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement took effect, it remains in the public domain. Under the previous rules, copyright on photographs taken before 1 May 1969 lasted 50 years from the end of the year in which the photo was taken. As Monash died in 1931, copyright on any photographic portrait of him must have expired by the end of 1981 according to Australian law. So what we are discussing here is the (established) right of the owner of a particular print of a public-domain image to place conditions on, and perhaps require payment for, the use of copies made from that print. So far - cut and dried, at least in Australia. But in many cases several prints are extant, let's say one in AWM; one in SLV; one in a local Historical Society's archives; one or two in private hands. Presumably all these owners are entitled to invent their own rules (or none), as takes their fancy? But what about other copies of the image that are likely to exist in old books and newspapers? If the book is in the public domain (for the Monash era: author dead 50 years) can one buy it second hand and, becoming the owner of the prints it contains, make copies of them to one's heart's content? The same might apply to images in old newspapers, but I have not yet found anything on the ACC website referring specifically to copyright duration of newspapers. Can anyone clear these last points up? And is it contributors or Wikipedia that has to check the copyright laws of every country connected to the internet in case they are more restrictive than Aussie laws?

Assessment comment

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Comment(s)

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The John Monash page seems to have started as a military history page, but I note it also comes under the heading of Biography and Australian Studies. Information on Monash's earlier career is now being added. This is good, as he was 49 when he went to war! He had parallel careers in the part-time Militia and as a civil engineer. The former is summarised in a paper by Major E W O Perry, "The Military Life of General Sir John Monash", Victorian Historical Magazine, v28, Dec 1957, 25-42. As an engineer, Monash was responsible for many bridges, water towers, buildings, a wharf, and other projects. After working for various contractors and the Melbourne Harbor Trust, he went into partnership with J T N Anderson and was progressively the principal engineer in the Monier Pipe Company, the Reinforced Concrete & Monier Pipe Construction Co, and the South Australian Reinforced COncrete Co. After the war he became General Manager of the State Electricity Commission of Victoria. Unfortunately, the widely accepted view that he was Engineer of the Morell Bridge (as currently stated on the page) is almost certainly incorrect. The contract drawing for this bridge, which includes the graphical calculations, is signed by W J Baltzer and F M Gummow, on behalf of the firm Carter Gummow & Co (later Gummow & Forrest), based in Sydney. I have a theory as to how the 'myth' developed, but won't go into it unless anyone is interested. I have added Monash's birth date. Geoffrey Serle states that the family celebrated 27th, although Monash's official birth certificate shows 23rd. However, the clerk recorded the street name incorrectly, so it appears there was a failure to communicate. It would be good to see the militia and engineering careers included in this page. Amoorland (talk) 13:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC) Myth creation. My knee-jerk late-night response (above) was based on 10-year old memory. Double-checking in the cold light of day, I find that my photocopy of the drawing with the graphical calculations contains no signatures - only the stamp of Carter Gummow & Co. However, Monash & Anderson referred to it as "your drawing" in early correspondence with CG&Co. Another drawing showing improvements to one of the foundations is signed by F M Gummow. Baltzer's initials do not appear on any of my photocopies of drawings, but I am confident that as the technical expert who brought knowledge of the Monier system to Australia from Germany, and designed the Monier-arch aqueducts at Annandale, Sydney, which preceded the Morell Bridge, he was responsible for the initial calculations for Morell. There is additional circumstantial evidence. Both Monash and Anderson were capable of performing the necessary calculations, and did so for other bridges, but the weight of evidence in this particular case is that it was Baltzer. Amoorland (talk) 23:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 11:27, 15 January 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 20:17, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Krotoszyn

Krotoszyn used to be Polish till 1793. Greater Poland Jews Germanised quickly as the result of liberal Prussian politics.Xx236 (talk) 07:18, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• MONASHJPG100918.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:52, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Incorrect dates

If they moved back to Melbourne in 1877, how did he meet Ned Kelly at Jerilderie in 1879? Mztourist (talk) 08:34, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

German background relevance in later life

In the Early life section we are told "...from 1914 until his death, he had no good reason to attract attention to his German background." I'm sure this is at least a little misleading. A major job of Monash's after the war was as both chairman and general manager of the State Electricity Commission of Victoria(SEC). The Formation sub-section of that article, which mentions his role, also mentions that the work the SEC did was modelled on what Germany was doing with similar coal resources. This German influence was true for much of the early life of the SEC. It's hard to believe that any German connection Monash had did not play some part in his role there. HiLo48 (talk) 02:40, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Content from Unit colour patch

As an attempt to reduce the excessive size of the above mentioned article, I am moving the following here:

An image + some sources

His Majesty King George V congratulating Lieutenant General Sir John Monash KCB VD, General Officer Commanding, Australian Corps, after his investiture on 12 August 1918 as a KCB. The ribbon for the KCB can be seen around General Monash's neck and the unit colour patch for Headquarters Australian Corps can be seen on his upper left sleeve. On 1 June 1918, the promotion of Monash to Lieutenant General and commander of the Australian Corps had been confirmed. On 4 July 1918 Monash had spectacularly successfully commanded the Australian Corps, with American troops under his command who were fighting in this war for the first time, at the Battle of Hamel. References

This appears to be already covered in the article, but if you wish to replace the rather plain 1918 image with this one, feel free to do so (though shorten that monstrosity of a caption before...). Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:22, 22 May 2020 (UTC)