Talk:Just Like a Woman/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 09:32, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

This will run over the course of two days. --K. Peake 09:32, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead[edit]

  • Why is August 18 listed as the release date in the infobox when only August is sourced?
  • Genres should be sourced directly in the body, rather than having refs in the infobox
  • "first released on his seventh studio album," → "from his seventh studio album," and place the release year in brackets instead
  • "It was written by Dylan and" → "The song was written by Dylan and"
  • The lead feels a bit out of order; writing/recording detail should be after the producer and songwriter, then release
  • Move the commercial info to the end of the second para and add more, as the song charted in multiple countries
  • "some critics have suggested" start a new sentence here to avoid a run-on
  • "allegedly wrote "Just Like a Woman" on" → "allegedly wrote it on"
  • Avoid the world claim per WP:CLAIM
  • "Dylan recorded the track" → "Dylan recorded the song" and capitalize the word Studio
  • "frequent collaborator Al Kooper along with" → "frequent collaborator Al Kooper, alongside" removing the guitarists introduction from the lead, but where are these two sourced as the ones that join them?
  • I've removed these from the lead, no real reason to single out Kooper or two of the guitarists. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Dylan's version of the song at number 232" → "Dylan's version at number 232"
  • "and became a hit across Europe," → "and was a hit across Europe,"
  • "It received good reviews" → "The song received positive reviews" remove the upon release part and add what was praised

Background and recording[edit]

  • The source on the img text offers no mention of organ
  • Amended the caption and source.
  • I don't think any of the albums need commas around them
  • Turns out it was Studio A, not the Quonset Hut Studio. I added a reference. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:30, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Seven complete takes and multiple" → "Seven complete takes, and multiple"
  • You are using the wrong AllMusic ref for the release date; cite the album's one instead
  • Where does he write it was arguably the most commercial track?
  • Hmm, on reflection that's not a good summary of "There was a time, specifically 1966, when a song like this ... could crack the Top 40. It is certainly one of the most, if not the most, radio-friendly track on the masterful double record". Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink bass guitar
  • "Kooper on organ and" → "Kooper on organ, and" with the pipe
  • [4][12][13] why is [4] here when it does not provide any of the info?
  • "unusually for Dylan," → "unusually for him,"
  • "just can't fit"." → ""just can't fit."" per MOS:QUOTE on full sentences

Composition and lyrical interpretation[edit]

  • Pipe compilation to Compilation album and remove the comma after it
  • Avoid the word claim per WP:CLAIM
  • "at work on this song" → "at work on the song"
  • "that Dylan improvised the lyrics in the studio, by" → "that he improvised the lyrics in the studio by"
  • "This exploration of" → "Dylan's exploration of" per this being a new para
  • "or some similar" → "or a similar" and is debutante really an appropriate term?
  • "Discussing whether the biographical basis of this song is important," → "Discussing whether the biographical basis is important,"
  • "The target of the song is" → "The subject of the song is"
  • "in Dylan's song." → "in "Just Like a Woman"."

Alleged sexism[edit]

  • Again, the ref on the img text does not back up the info
  • Removed it as there is no free to use rationale covering the US, as far as I can see). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove overly obvious wikilink on lyrics
  • Should the newspaper be referred to as The New York Times or was the name different back in 1971?
  • "of sexist slurs," and" → "of sexist slurs", and" per MOS:QUOTE
  • Too much quoting from the AllMusic review is overkill; try to summarize this a bit more
  • "Janovitz concludes by" → "Janovitz concluded by"

Critical reception[edit]

  • "Asbury Park Press columnist" → "The Asbury Park Press columnist"
  • Add a space before Billboard and mention it was a reviewer of the magazine
  • Either add the staff or a writer of before Cash Box
  • "believes that Dylan" → "believed that Dylan" for consistent tense
  • "The Sun-Herald's reviewer dismissed" → "The Sun-Herald's reviewer dismissed" with the wikilink
  • Mention that Craig McGregor is from The Sydney Morning Herald with the wikilink
  • "Arizona Republic reviewer Troy Irvine" → "The Arizona Republic reviewer Troy Irvine" with the wikilink
  • "likewise, called it" → "likewise, called the song"
  • "enough to compensate"." → "enough to compensate."" per MOS:QUOTE
  • "Gray highlights the lyric" → "Gray highlights the lines"
  • "He does, however, praise" → "He did, however, praise"

Live versions and later releases[edit]

  • First para looks good!
  • Remove pipe on compilations
  • Maybe add the release years of the compilations in brackets?
  • "of that album." → "of the album."
  • Where are the live recordings sourced?
  • "and the Deluxe Edition of" → "and the deluxe edition of" per unnecessary capitalization
  • "were released in the boxed set" → "were released in the box set" but this release is not sourced

Credits and personnel[edit]

  • Good

Manfred Mann version[edit]

  • The genres mentioned in the infobox are not sourced
  • Removed. I struggled to find sources, and not having one would be consistent with what I suggest for the Dylan version infobox. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:12, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove overly obvious wikilink on London

Background and recording[edit]

  • "Mike Hugg and Tom McGuinness," → "Mike Hugg, and Tom McGuinness," on the img text, also shouldn't they be identified as a group?
  • The Mann-Hugg Blues Brothers → the Mann-Hugg Blues Brothers per MOS:THEMUSIC
  • "had started disintegrating." → "had started to break up."
  • "the group had begun" → "Manfred Mann had begun"
  • "early 1966 which left Jones unable to perform, the group hired" → "early 1966, which left Jones unable to perform, Manfred Mann hired"
  • "in June of that year, leaving the rest of the band" → "in June 1966, leaving the other members"
  • "also leaving the group" → "also leaving Manfred Mann"
  • "d'Abo who had recently quit his band accepted" → "d'Abo, who had recently quit his band, accepted"
  • Mention what year June was in since this is a new para
  • "the band signed a contract" → "the group signed a contract"
  • "with the group staying on that label" → "with them staying on the label"
  • "who had produced" → "who had produced for"
  • "the Who and David Bowie," → "the Who, and David Bowie,"
  • "that the Manfreds were fans" → "that the members were fans"
  • "The band had scored a hit" → "The group had scored a hit"
  • Remove commas around Kenneth Pitt
  • "much of the Manfreds'" → "much of their"
All addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:28, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Release and reception[edit]

  • "as the group's debut single on that label" → "as Manfred Mann's debut single on their label"
  • "over who's version" → "over whose version"
  • "Bob Dylan crashed his motorcycle," → "Dylan crashed his motorcycle,"
  • "The Manfreds version was backed by" → "Manfred Mann's version was backed by"
  • Introduce who Manfred Mann is to avoid confusion with the group as a whole
  • Avoid the world claimed per WP:CLAIM
  • "at number ten" → "at number 10" per MOS:NUM
  • "It spent ten weeks on the chart." → "The song spent 10 weeks on the Record Retailer chart."
  • "to Bruce Eder of AllMusic meant that Manfreds" → "to Bruce Eder of AllMusic, meant that the other version's" but is this really the link?
  • Yes, but the quote wasn't exact. Amended, and added Eder as the author in the citation. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:58, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In Disc and Music Echo, it reached number nine," → "It reached number nine in Disc and Music Echo,"
  • Pipe New Musical Express to NME
  • "Across Europe it was" → "Across Europe, the version was" but you need a source for this
  • "reviewed both Manfred Mann's and Jonathan King's version, but preferred the Manfreds version," → "reviewed both Manfred Mann's and King's versions, but preferred the former,"
  • "which she attributed to" → "She attributed this to"
  • "she believed it would do better in the charts if Paul Jones" → "she believed the song would do better in the charts if Jones"
  • "a "fine-tempoed arrangement."" → "a "fine-tempoed arrangement"." per MOS:QUOTE
  • Add something like a writer or reviewer for Billboard and Cash Box
  • "and predicted it to reach the" → "and predicted to reach the"

Charts[edit]

Manfred Mann version[edit]

  • See MOS:TABLECAPTION
  • I think Lyons Maid is linked to something of the same name that is irrelevant
  • Judging by the online images I found when searching, that brand was actually the sponsor of those charts. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:25, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why so many UK charts?
  • Pipe New Musical Express to NME
  • Add Billboard and Cashbox in brackets instead

I removed the NZ chart - see Talk:Rainy_Day_Women_♯12_&_35#Charts_and_positions for some discussion on that one. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:03, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Dylan version[edit]

  • Shouldn't this be first since he is the original performer?
  • Moved, to follow order in the article, although the Manfred Mann single was issued before Dylan's single. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:53, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • See MOS:TABLECAPTION
  • Add Cashbox in brackets instead

Notes[edit]

  • Good

References[edit]

  • Always cite AllMusic as publisher and wikilink solely on ref 2
  • WP:OVERLINK of Melody Maker on ref 71
  • WP:OVERLINK of Disc and Music Echo on ref 74
  • WP:OVERLINK of Record World on refs 87 and 94

External links[edit]

  • Good

Final comments and verdict[edit]

  •  On hold until all of the issues are fixed! --K. Peake 12:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Many thanks for the thorough review, K. Peake. I've replied to your comments above; let me know what else needs to be done. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:31, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • ✓ Pass now, I copyedited some of the sloppy areas but your hard work definitely reached the mark! --K. Peake 20:36, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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