Talk:Ka Mate

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Kamate, Ka mate, Ka Mate![edit]

Kamate haka should be changed to Ka mate haka, as in the lyrics it is written as "Ka mate", not "Kamate".

There's still ambiguity about capitalization - the article's at "Ka mate haka" but the article text uses "Ka Mate haka". One or the other needs to be fixed. Bryan 00:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Since the titles of songs and chants are usually capitalised thruout,I will move it to Ka Mate haka Kahuroa 04:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed text[edit]

"Haka has come into the spotlight as a ritual amongst the Trinity Trojans, 2005 Texas State Football Champions. The team has several Tongan students who have helped the dance become part of the high school's tradition."

It's not clear that this is "Ka mate"; if that can be substantiated, it could be re-inserted. If it's a different haka, it should be mentioned (and referenced) in Haka of the All Blacks.--Curtis Clark 05:09, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Te Rauparaha's strategy[edit]

An anonymous editor added a note to the effect that 'the official All Blacks site' contains a reference to a Maori chief running away from his enemies and 'hiding under a woman.' I cannot find the reference on Allblacks.com on the haka page: could the contributor give a URL so this can be verified? While that wording does not actually differ from the facts of the version alluded to here, it does slant it in a pretty disparaging and narrow-minded way, it seems to me. It was not unknown for chiefs to have to run away from their enemies: but the chief could save his reputation by the use of a cunning strategy to outwit the enemies, as this was - he went into a kumara pit, an act unthinkable for a chief, because chiefs were tapu and food destroyed tapu, and had a woman sit over the pit - again unthinkable in terms of the operation of tapu and mana in those days. He outwitted his enemies, triumphed over death, because they could not conceive of him doing what he did. They were the ones who ended up ashamed, he didnt - because he made them look silly. His life was in danger - she saved his life by agreeing to sit on top of the kumara pit where he was hiding. That is why 'sitting under a woman' and 'running away from his enemies' is a celebration of the triumph of life over death! Kahuroa 05:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Haka of the All Blacks; Ka Mate; 2006 Kapa O Pango controversy[edit]

See the proposal at Talk:Haka_of_the_All_Blacks#Rationalisation_of_this_article_.26_the_separate_articles_for_the_haka. Nurg 02:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant trivia?[edit]

I don't think so. I had known nothing of Ka Mate prior to seeing the Get Fuzzy strip, nothing of the All Blacks, and precious little of Rugby. When I saw the script, I recognized the language as Maori (okay, I'm weird that way), googled a section of it, and here I am. Perhaps my reaction is unusual, but more North Americans were likely exposed to Ka Mate though that one strip than have been before or since.--Curtis Clark 14:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the trivia and material on Brigham Young University is better in Haka in popular culture, where much of it was already duplicated anyway, so I have moved it. This article is about the traditional context of a particular haka rather than the phenomenon of haka in sports etc Kahuroa 12:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sports controversy link[edit]

I removed this because this article is not related to sports like Haka of the All Blacks or popular culture like Haka in popular culture. Just wanting to keep this article focused on its theme. Kahuroa 06:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hī[edit]

It seems to me the last word is missing. -- 博 08:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just a reminder, this is not about the haka as performed by the All Blacks, so it may not be identical to that. Kahuroa 11:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vand[edit]

There was some fairly longstanding vandalism that was difficult to separate out, so I've reverted to a version that seems to be the last good edit. I encourage editors to grab any good bits from more recent edits and add it back without reverting to a more recent version. - superβεεcat  00:11, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunication[edit]

I'd like to stimulate a bit of discussion. I vaguely remember reading article saying that the All Blacks and the kiwis (rugby) pronounce the Haka differently. Thoughts on the following?

All Black Ka mate Kiwi Ka Mate
Ka mate, ka mate! ka ora! ka ora! Ā Ka mate, ka mate! ka ora!
Ka mate! ka mate! ka ora! ka ora! Ā Ka mate, ka mate! ka ora!
Tēnei te tangata pūhuruhuru Tēnei te tangata pūruhuru
Nāna nei i tiki mai whakawhiti te rā Nāna nei i tiki (mai) whakawhiti te rā
Ā, upane! ka upane! Ā, upane! ka upane!
Ā, upane, ka upane, whiti te ra! Ā, upane, ka upane, whiti te ra!

Paul Roberton (talk) 05:56, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified[edit]

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John Archer paper used as citation on composition of Ka mate[edit]

After encountering this 'paper' being cited to as evidence that the composer of Ka mate was not Te Rauparaha for the first time in my life, I read it closely, and it is self-published by an amateur folksong historian, and is not verified or corroborated or even cited by any other researchers in this area. Further, it directly contradicts other published sources.

So have removed it in line with WP:SELFPUB until the author's reliability in the field can be verified. Cyresse (talk) 05:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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