Talk:Kathy Barnette

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kathy Barnette article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Military / Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group.
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Pennsylvania Low‑importance

	Pennsylvania portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics: American Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by American politics task force.

Articles for creation

	This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
	This article was accepted from this draft on 17 May 2022 by reviewer Galobtter (talk · contribs).

Conservatism Low‑importance

	Conservatism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women writers Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

African diaspora Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject African diaspora, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of African diaspora on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.African diasporaWikipedia:WikiProject African diasporaTemplate:WikiProject African diasporaAfrican diaspora articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, May 19, 2022, see discussion.
Speedy Delete, May 9, 2022, see discussion.
Delete and Redirect, April 19, 2022, see discussion.

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Stieber, Zachary (May 10, 2022). "Wikipedia Deletes Page of Top US Senate Candidate". The Epoch Times. Retrieved May 11, 2022. Wikipedia editors deleted a page for Republican U.S. Senate candidate Kathy Barnette after arguing she is not a notable person... Barnette, a military veteran who is seeking to become the first black U.S. senator representing Pennsylvania, took note of what happened, telling supporters, 'When they cancel me, they're cancelling you.'
Foley, Ryan (May 11, 2022). "Wikipedia removes page of Senate candidate conceived in rape". The Christian Post. Retrieved May 12, 2022. A U.S. Senate candidate in Pennsylvania is accusing Wikipedia of trying to 'cancel' her by deleting her Wikipedia page as her campaign gains momentum in the days leading up to the primary election.
Vasoli, Bradley (May 12, 2022). "Pennsylvania Senate Candidate Barnette's Wikipedia Article Pulled". The Tennessee Star. Retrieved May 18, 2022. Whatever intentions Wikipedia may have had concerning its actions so far, Barnette has gotten much web traffic as a result of it: At this writing, her tweet on the matter has garnered 7,127 retweets and 18,500 likes.

2 sources[edit]

CNN:[1]. Washington Examiner:[2]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:00, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also this profile from 2020 [3] (surprised no one found this in the first AfD). Galobtter (pingó mió) 19:50, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Some politifact:[4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:08, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's also some other sources and a some useful material in the deleted versions, if I have some time I'll try to surface them. Galobtter (pingó mió) 20:12, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Galobtter There is a copy of the original article from 2021 available on the Internet Archive. link: https://web.archive.org/web/20210413181503/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Barnette Physeters^✉ 21:19, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's good, there's other recreations from this month and I was looking at the deleted versions directly (using the admin capabilities). Galobtter (pingó mió) 22:25, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know that admins could do that. That's quite a nice feature! Physeters^✉ 22:42, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Physeters, you can also ask an admin to let you see deleted stuff, WP:REFUND. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:09, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"She has espoused homophobic, Islamophobic views and has promoted conspiracy theories."[edit]

IMO the above sentence does not belong in the lead. The lead is only three sentences; this should not be one of them. It’s not a description of who she is or what she does for a living. (Which actually isn't clear; some sources describe her as a "conservative activist" and others as a "political commentator".) This material is in the article text as a single sentence; maybe it could be expanded upon there. But in my opinion pulling a single negative sentence out of the article and putting it in the lead violates WP:Due weight as well as WP:Neutrality. I see that someone removed it but it was promptly restored. User:Discospinster, can we talk about that?

One other problem: we describe her as an author but say nothing about her writing in the article itself; shouldn’t that part of her biography be expanded beyond just a mention under “publications”? -- MelanieN (talk) 22:48, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I restored information that was removed without apparent reason. There was additional content removed along with what was in the lead. ... discospinster _talk 22:52, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem the sources strongly mention that, e.g for the nytimes profile basically the first thing that's mentioned after describing that she's running for the senate is her views. Galobtter (pingó mió) 22:53, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

her notability comes almost enitrely from her radical views and are mentioned in every non primary source PRAXIDICAE💕 23:03, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, content does not belong in lead. Additionally, the info should read that she has been described as "homophobic, etc", otherwise this violates the NPOV rule for living persons. User:Ageofultron 12:48 , 18 May 2022 (UTC)

The primary is today, results tonight. If she doesn't go anywhere in the primary, she becomes just another two-time-loser politician and I am going to be tempted to AfD the article. -- MelanieN (talk) 02:04, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree with the deletion, and look forward to it. Zaathras (talk) 03:17, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seems due and well referenced. Misrepresenting sources [5] isn't a solution. WP:ARBAP2 and WP:ARBBLP apply. --Hipal (talk) 03:30, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MelanieN: This article was deleted TWICE by community consensus and salted. Not sure how why it got approved at AfC after that. I don't think AfC can overturn an AfD. And CNN has already said it's a two-man race now. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 03:36, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Tartan357 I approved it. Only one AfD had community consensus, the other AfD was a speedy delete. The previous AfD result obviously doesn't apply anymore since there is much much more coverage now. I think the combination of the lengthy Politico article from 2020 about the previous run (national coverage) + the substantial sources on this run is easily enough for WP:NBIO, but we can re-debate it I suppose. Galobtter (pingó mió) 03:42, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:PAGEDECIDE applies. Someone who has only generated coverage in the context of a failed primary bid does not need their own article, because all the content can easily go into the election article. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 03:44, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I mentioned the national coverage for the previous campaign because this means there's no one article she can be merged to - she has generated coverage for two different runs. We usually have a separate article if there's not one place for the material to go. Also the coverage she has received is not of the routine sort that people campaigning receive. Galobtter (pingó mió) 03:51, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is no problem where to redirect. It would not be redirected to her 2020 run for office. Even in 2021 when this was first AfDed, the redirect was to the 2022 Senate race, not the 2020 run for the House. -- MelanieN (talk) 21:13, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

MelanieN, I would support deletion as well. The draft absolutely should not have been moved to mainspace hours before losing the primary election. Or can we just move back to draft? Reywas92^Talk 18:39, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Named references[edit]

Is a great thing, but it is helpful to the general Wikipedian if they have a name that indicates what they are. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:41, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should we redirect this to the campaign article?[edit]

First, some history for those who can’t see deleted pages: The article was originally created on April 6, 2021. There were 10 references, none of them to reliable sources. It was nominated for deletion, and the result on April 19, 2021 was: delete, then redirect to the 2022 primary article. Then in May 9-10 2022 the redirect was expanded several times, restored as a redirect several times, deleted per G4, and restored as a full-protected redirect. The current article was created as a draft on May 16, 2022. On May 17 Galobtter deleted the protected redirect per G6, and moved the draft into the namespace. That is the article we are looking at now.

My own opinion is that we should restore the (protected) redirect, since she is simply a twice-unsuccessful candidate for office, with no other claim to fame. Sources can’t even decide what she does for a living, describing her as a “conservative activist” or “political commentator. The bulk of her coverage occurred in the last two weeks, suggesting a case of BLP1E. However, IMO restoring the redirect would require an AfD, considering the lack of consensus here and the large number of people who have edited the article. I will consider doing that a little later, I don't have time right now. Unless someone else wants to propose it? -- MelanieN (talk) 21:13, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After reviewing the references in the current article, I am getting less inclined toward redirect. Although most of the references are very recent, they show national coverage from many major reliable sources. BTW the references are a mess. Some don't include the publication date, some don't include the name of the publication, there's one to one of her own campaign videos. If somebody has the time and wants this article to be improved and kept, I would encourage you to fix the references. -- MelanieN (talk) 21:25, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Philadelphia Inquirer article[edit]

Can someone take a look at this 2021 article about Barnette? : [6] I can’t access it right now. I think it may include helpful biographic details. Thriley (talk) 21:29, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I'm sorting through it now. It mostly talks about alleged voter fraud claims she, and others like Mike Lindell made. It should be useful though in piecing together her story before she fell in the national spotlight. Physeters^✉ 00:57, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Election category[edit]

@TJMSmith, other informed editors. About the categories changed here [7], is a primary meant to count as an election in context, or are those cats only meant for people in the "actual" election? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:50, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the the other years categories, i.e. 2020, it looks like wiki notable candidates in both the primary and general elections are included. It is a subcategory of "Candidates in the 2022 United States elections." TJMSmith (talk) 17:55, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:18, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2022-05-29/In the media[edit]

For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:41, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]