Talk:Keys (album)

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Come for Me[edit]

As of August 2022, Come for Me has not been serviced to digital retailers or streaming services as a single nor does it have a radio release date. The song was released in December 10 along with the rest of the songs on the album. Since then, Keys has released two official music videos for the song, the latest video released was to promote the re-release. No notable music publication has called it a single. Furthermore, the non-notable sources in the article to not state that the song was released as a single on July 14. Samsonite Man (talk) 18:01, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Samsonite Man It's been discussed a million times before, once an album is already released, a song does not need to be sent to radio or released digitally to be considered a single because its already available to stream or download. There's something called impact day where a song is promoted to a specific date. Its particularly pertenant since AK has fulfilled her contract with RCA Records and has not re-signed with them or got a new record deal. Since RCA have the copyright to the album it would make sense that they're under no obligation to re-promote the album or its singles. Its also factually incorrect to say that no sources have called the song a single. Target call the song a single in their listing for the album. In the description it says Includes the single Come For Me feat. Khalid & Lucky Daye. Furthermore, Wonderland magazine said: Alicia Keys collaborates with Khalid and Lucky Daye in a lucid, sensual and mesmerising new single, "Come For Me". Dropping today alongside a dreamy visual, "Come For Me" boasts the nostalgia of classic 90s R&B, whilst its modernised video sparks the excitement of directions anew.. There are plenty of other examples where other songs have been "released" in a similar fashion. In fact, there was a whole trend of this impact day style release in the UK where song's music videos were released and subsequently the song was promoted to the same date where it was already available as a download or stream as an album track. Its nowhere near as clearcut as what is trying to be made out - single releases in the digital era have never been straightforward. Music video releases are technically a form of streaming ever since YouTube views were counted in the charts. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 18:11, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lakes Media, the owner of several US states called it "one of two new singles" here. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 18:23, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lil-unique1 Where is the source for all this? Deltaplexnews, Wonderland and lakesmedianetwork are not reliable sources when it comes to Alicia Keys single releases. Revolt article does not even state that the song was released as a single. Text on Target website was written by a Target employee, not a relaible source. Keys and her label decide what songs are singles, not Target employees. There is absolutely nothing on Keys own website and social media pages suggesting that Come for Me is a single. Samsonite Man (talk) 16:26, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's tonnes of occasions where artist's own websites don't list a single. "Love Again" by Dua Lipa wasn't listed on her website, initial coverage was just a radio station tweeting it. See WP:PRIMARY for things about sources. I'd be willing to refer to it as a promo single potentially. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 17:51, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lil-unique1 So are you saying single releases do not require a reliable source anymore? I don't think that is the case. Come for Me is not a single. Point plank, period! Samsonite Man (talk) 18:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You have twisted my words. I never said they don't need a reliable source. What you are saying is that "unless its a primary source, its not realiable". This is not correct - primary sources are not the only reliable source, and if anything they're discouraged. We don't use record labels for sales or certifications for example. At the very least, its a promo single because Keys went out of her way to release a brand new music video. Music videos count towards charting and streaming, therefore music video release is arguably a form of release. If there is reliable coverage from notable publications that call a song a single and it has at least one type of release away from the parent project e.g. the album then its a single. At the very least, "Come for Me" is a promo single given it had a music video and was used to promote the album's re-release. Also, your assertions that "someone randomly wrote the listings for Target" isn't correct. That information comes from the label. Bear in mind, Keys is no longer signed to RCA - she completed her contract with them so their obligations to promote the release will be a lot smaller. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 18:33, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lil-unique1 You may have misunderstood the guideline. When it comes to single releases, the artist or label releasing a single and digital retailers carrying the release is a primary source. Publications reporting and for example reviewing the release is a secondary source. Same applies to certification awards: the certification body granting the award is a primary source and the labels and press etc reporting sales figures and certifications are secondary sources. You're yet to provide a source stating that

song does not need to be sent to radio or released digitally to be considered a single
There's something called impact day where a song is promoted to a specific date and that it's particularly pertenant since AK has fulfilled her contract with RCA Records
music video is a form of single release
If a song has at least one type of release away from the the album then it's a single
Come for Me was released as a single
Come for Me was released as a single on July 14, 2022
Come for Me is a promo single
Keys is no longer signed to RCA - she completed her contract so their obligations to promote the release will be a lot smaller.

Samsonite Man (talk) 16:05, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Samsonite Man dude you're consistently misunderstanding or misquoting me deliberately because you are unwilling to consider a view other than your own. I know that labels/artists are primary sources and that publications reporting something are secondary sources. I don't need to prove that everything and every example is the case. Just judging each song release on its own merits.

Outside of the US, its very common for songs to be released digitally without "being sent to radio". The US is pretty much the only country where airplay matters that much that there is sophisticated system of radio and airplay.
There is something called impact day. There are lots of examples where publications and even the Official Charts Company (UK Charts provider) have reported a specific date for the release of a song but there's no separate digital listing for the single just the album track. The song is promoted to said date and because album track streaming and downloads are a thing, people are able to download tracks from an album that is already released without a separate digital listing for the song. "Wet" by Nicole Scherzinger is an example of this. There was no specific radio date in the UK (there's no such thing as radio airplay date) and no separate listing yet the song got ample coverage as a single and even got a music video.
I don't need a source to say If a song has at least one type of release away from the the album then it's a single its a statement of fact based on the definition of a single ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There are multiple sources present that say "Come for Me" was a single, with the release of a second music video being the single release.
Again I don't need a source to say music videos are a form of single release. A single release by its very nature and definition is a standalone release where by a song is made available to consume away from its parent album. As music videos count towards streaming, they count towards charting positions. If a song being made available to stream on Spotify etc. is a form of single release then so its the release of a music video which is just a different streaming format.
Reliable secondary sources have called the song a single, it has had two music videos and was promoted with the music video ahead of the album's release. Per WP:DUCK is not an ordinary album track. Promo single would work because clearly the 2nd music video is promoting the Keys II release. You don't need a source for obvious things like statement of being. You don't go around needing a source to say Keys is an album by Alicia Keys but the very existence of the album is the source.
Alicia Keys said herself her contract with RCA is complete Vibe, Variety and Rap-Up. Evidently, therefore the label is under no obligation to promote an artist who is out of contract with them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just because you don't like what secondary sources have said or you can't find a primary source to back it up doesn't mean that the said primary sources are not correct. That's not how WP:V or WP:RS work. If you're unwilling to accept the above then its probably time to ask for a third opinion or RFC. Clearly you have strong (and traditional views) about what constitutes a single. Most 2000s, it isn't as clear cut as it used to be, particularly not since we now have multiple digital formats and methods of releasing music. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 19:51, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lil-unique1

Revolt: Today’s drop marks the second official clip for “Come For Me (Unlocked)” — the first iteration marked a more chill vibe, with viewers getting an intimate look into the creation of the song. This go ’round, Keys & Co. can be spotted in a more artistic setting of sorts, complete with shots of the three vibing as footage plays on the wall behind them. Coinciding with the release of Alicia Keys’ latest video is the official announcement of KEYS II, which will serve as the deluxe edition of KEYS.
Vibe: “singer dropped the video for her Daye and Khalid-assisted track, “Come For Me (Unlocked)”
Rated R&B: Amid her world tour, Alicia Keys unveils the official video for “Come For Me (Unlocked)” featuring Khalid and Lucky Daye.
Alicia Keys Twitter: AK X KHALID X LUCKY Come For Me VIDEO out now! @thegreatkhalid @iamluckydaye https://aliciakeys.to/xcomeforme/youtube… Pre-order #KEYS2 now!!

Stop this foolishness! Keys’ recording contract has nothing to do with this. You haven’t provided any sources on the song’s UK impact day. There are no multiple sources that say "Come for Me" was a single. The sources clearly indicate that the music video was released to promote the re-release. Since the album's release, Keys has released music videos for Old Memories, Only You and two videos for Come for Me. However, these songs have not been released as singles.

The next single is Trillions. The song has been sent to radio and a music video has been released.

Samsonite Man (talk) 16:45, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]