Talk:Kingdom of Powys

A lot of information has been added to this page and much of it, while informative, is in a complete mess - horrendous spelling mistakes etc...have tried to clean it up James Frankcom

• Thanx for copy editing! I need to flesh out many more passages, and relate them directly to thr history of Powys. My concern is simply you have removed attribution within the artical that would be neccessary. Unless this sort of attribution is not wiki's way. Drachenfyre 20:13, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

• I have moved a section of your piece regarding the evolution of the name "cymru" to the main Wales page because it is more relevant there. I am also going to put a reference to John Davies at the bottom of this page. James Frankcom

• My advice is do you work then copy and paste it into a WORD or something similar. See what the spell-check brings up. Make the correction - except obviously for Words in Cymraeg - and then paste it into the edit window. That way you should avoid most of the avoidable spelling and typing errors. Some work may be needed, especially in the Rhodri/Gruffydd/Hywel section to make it relevant to just Powys. Good work though fella James Frankcom

Thanx, but there are some word choices which give a non point of view tone to the artical now. (Slaughtered comes to mind). Also, I have other sources to list, so it would be neccessary to list the references within the artical so as to differentuate which idea belong to which source.Drachenfyre 20:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean, but ideally things should be neutral. However, sometimes words like "slaughtered" are appropriate - perhaps for the poor monks of Bangor! I would not use phrases like "..says John Davies" and things like that. Put his name in brackets (Davies) and at the bottom have a full attribution. I have only been using this wonderful website for a year or so and these are things I have picked up. There are certainly people who know more than I on this and I am sure they will correct me and further refine this article. James Frankcom

Powysians @ Chester & Maes Cogwy

• I have re-instated (and expanded) information concerning the doubtfulness of certain statements in the 'Early Dark Ages' section, specifically regarding the Battles of Chester & Maes Cogwy. The reasons for Aethelfrith of Northumbria's supposed attempt to invade Gwynedd come directly from Geoffrey of Monmouth, not the most reliable of sources. I can find no evidence that the Powysians were at Maes Cogwy, although a brief passage in the Canu Heledd does imply that Cynddylan ap Cyndrwyn was there. If one accepts that he was from Powys (by birth or descent) or that his lands were at that time part of Powys, then it could be said that Powysian soldiers were involved in the battle, but this is something of a leap. Walgamanus 16:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
• I have again reinstated information concerning these two battles, with further clarification. Still further information and many sources may be found on the wikipages for the individual battles. Please do not remove this information unless you are able to cite additional, preferably primary, sources to the contrary. John Davies is a respected Welsh historian, but we can do much better for references than his 'History of Wales' which is, of necessity, a condensed history written as general reading matter rather than an academic study. Quote Davies for his opinions. Quote primary sources for widely accepted facts. Additionally, I have removed references to King Selyf's name meaning 'peace' in Welsh; as far as I am aware, the name means 'peace' in Hebrew: see Solomon. I have also removed references to St. Tysilio being educated at Bangor Iscoed, for which I can find no evidence. The 'Life of St. Suliau (alias Tysilio)' states that he first became a monk, at Meifod, under the influence of Abbot Gwyddfarch who visited him at his father's court. Walgamanus 22:15, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• I have now obtained a copy of Davies' 'A History of Wales'. Nowehere does he state that the Battle of Chester was the result of Aethelfrith's pursuit of Edwin, nor that Selyf denied him access to Gwynedd via Powys. Nor does he state that the Powysians were at Maes Cogwy. Walgamanus 11:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
• I believe a lot of very serious consideration should be given before widely accepted 'factual' information is deleted. Individual points about events which happened or perhaps did not a long time ago are often, even in estabished sources, based on the likelihood of something happening, something hinted or something implied, rather than on indisputable events stated as we would expect in modern reference material. Cynddylan was in all likelihood a real king who ruled a real realm, called or centred upon a place called Pengwern. Genealogical tables show him to be closely related to the traditional family of Powys. If a king of that line fought at Chester then he would invariably be accompanied by soldiers drawn from Pengwern or Powys depending on whether you believe Pengwern was a part of Powys or not. Most events occurring millennia ago, if subjected to over-rigorous critical examination and reduced solely to content of explicitly proven points, would reduce ancient history to some sort of anaemic non-event. History is not science. I think what is primarily important is how points like this are presented. They should be presented as events that definately happened as well as those likely to have happened based on what little is known from surviving source material James Frankcom (talk) 23:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Map of Powys

• I have noticed that User:Owj20 has created a marvellous new map for this page. It is excellent and I am sure I can echo everyone's thanks to you for your work and thank you for updating this page from the previous map which desperately needed replacing! Perhaps it should be applied to the other pages relating to medieval kingdoms in Cymru? James Frankcom (talk) 23:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Ceri and Cedewain

Is it correct to describe these are part of the Kingdom of Powys? They appear to have had native ruling dynasties of their own, which would suggest that they were semi-independent polities. No doubt they were overshadowed by more powerful neighbours, and thus were strongly under their influence. However, it seems to me anachronistic to dewscribe them as part of Powys. They formed part of the land between the Severn and the Wye, whose early history is obscure, as we have little to go on but genealogies, which are often a less than fully satisfactory historical source. Peterkingiron (talk) 13:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Arfbais Powys arms.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:25, 10 August 2022 (UTC)