Talk:Laurie Penny

Verbosity

Overall this article is very verbose and includes a lot of irrelevant details from Twitter. I have tried to clean it up and improve the readability but it still needs a lot of work. I would suggest more efforts to pare down the information to what is suitable for inclusion on Wikipedia, and particularly to make clear why this person is notable.

This article relies heavily on self published sources and is clearly in violation of WP:BLPSELFPUB 94.252.97.83 (talk) 06:58, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, self published info CAN be included if it's not controversial, or self serving. Their stated location of living in Brighton or school they attended are examples of exemptions from BLPSELFPUBLISHING. Shushugah (talk) 08:50, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

I have tried to improve things with some additional sources. Hopefully a lot better and more encyclopedic now. 94.252.97.83 (talk) 10:02, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Where's the meat in this market?

This page reads more as a promotion of Penny's blog, opinion pieces, and books than an actual article. There is nothing here to give the reader any idea of what her ideas are, still less any analysis of them or the considerable criticism she has received from various parts of the political spectrum in the UK. Not even a decent shot of her haircut, which appears to be central to her ideological, or celebrity, or celebritological appeal. Instead there are about a dozen links to her blogs or articles and some more-or-less blatant promotion of her books. I came here trying to find out why she had been credited with such authoritative (not to mention psychic) status on the current video gaming controversy page as to be allowed to put the words "these uppity cunts must be stopped" in the mouths of her opponents as if this were something other than inflammatory and slanderous rhetoric. Apparently, throwing the word "cunt" around is another one of her specialities that would bear some looking into. Interesting history. Maybe the people who locked her opinions in that other article in a place beyond criticism by most readers would care to comment before this article gets set in stone.68.178.50.46 (talk) 02:44, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

If you're looking for somewhere to insert pro-Gamergate rhetoric, you really are going to have to look elsewhere. I agree the page needs work, but any such material needs to be both neutral and verifiable. Vashti (talk) 20:07, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

So you think putting reactionary opinions in deliberately offensive language in the mouths of people you disagree with constitutes neutral and verifiable material? This is kosher, but "pro-Gamergate rhetoric" (whatever that is) must be eliminated at all costs? Is that how it works? Really, you finger-wagging "purists" are a hoot, especially when your scrupulousness is so transparently selective. Page needs more work? Hell, send it back to the publicist it came from. Maybe she's published an autobiography by now, if she hasn't stepped in front of a taxi.68.178.50.46 (talk) 23:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

This is an encyclopaedia, we report the arguments, not partake in them, analyse, criticise or comment upon them. In articles about individuals there is usually a weighting to the work and ideas of those individuals, as well as the obvious biographical information. Often a criticism section is also included, but with due weight to the fact that an article is mostly about the subject of the article, not other people's ideas. By all means make such a section. Just play by the normal rules of Wikipedia: nothing will be your opinion, instead you will just report, from good sources, the notable critical opinions of others. --Mongreilf (talk) 20:12, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining how Wikipedia is supposed to work, Mongreilf, and I must say you pull off the magisterial tone quite effectively. As you say there is "usually" (I guess) a weighing to the work and ideas of those individuals. So back to my original point which is: what are this woman's actual ideas? I don't see anything beyond the fact that she opposes liberal feminists, hardly a unique postion. This page tells me that she's a "Truthdigger" (what truths does she dig up?) and that she's one of the "people who matter"(why exactly does or should she matter, to people in the UK, to human beings generally and to me in particular?)68.178.50.46 (talk) 01:39, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Grew up in Brighton is incorrect (perhaps)

I'm pretty sure she grew up in Lewes, though went to school in Brighton. She seems to think so too link--Mongreilf (talk) 20:02, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

The article currently cites an entry on "Penny Red", her blog, from November 2009 in which Laurie Penny says she grew up in Brighton, as well as a biography from one of her publishers. In other words, the current version is as much cited to comments coming directly from the subject, of probably approved by Laurie Penny, as the comment on twitter you have cited. Philip Cross (talk) 20:40, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Seems Laurie Penny grew up in Lewes and Brighton. Made a modification to the article. Philip Cross (talk) 20:52, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I suspect, without any sources to back me up, that she did what a lot of my friends from Lewes do: emphasise Brighton connections and downplay Lewes ones. --Mongreilf (talk) 21:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Conflict with David Starkey and WWII tweet

This article should not be a collection of every time that Laurie Penny was ever mentioned in the news. It's an encyclopedia article and it's coverage should reflect events of "enduring notability", per WP:NOTNEWS. I do not believe that either of these events have enduring notability. Also the paragraph about David Starkey is the longest paragraph in the section on her career, which is certainly not in line with Wikipedia's due weight policy. The section reads more like a tabloid than an encyclopedia article. Surely someone out there has actually written about Laurie Penny's writing, and not just her tweets and personal conflicts with celebrities. Kaldari (talk) 16:58, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Jewish identity

The page at present mentions (with citations) her atheism, her father as a "lapsed Jew" and a Guardian article in which she states having been the target of "vile sexist and anti-Semitic abuse" - that she attributes to "being both female and left-wing." It would appear that the Jewish aspect hasn't otherwise been shown as significant in her notable persona. Per the WP policy on categories and lists, I'm removing her page from the List of Jewish feminists and three categories (leaving that of her Jewish ancestry), which would properly be restored when supportive content is added to this page. -- Deborahjay (talk) 11:48, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

TV Writing

Penny has written for at least three TV shows but I'm having trouble finding anything but the most basic citations. It's getting to the point where a new section is probably appropriate - I put a little squib in the intro. Just parking this here in case there's someone who's knows where to look for TV writing citations, because I don't seem to be very good at it. Tim Bray (talk) 20:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

They got married 5 December 2020

Per their Wired article, they are married to an Australian man whom they had met once pre-pandemic. They started dating remotely in June, with Doctor Who among their most common initial topics. When the distance turned from being a mechanism of emotional safety to being a frustration for them, he flew to LA to stay with them at an Airbnb in October. After living together for two months they decided to get married so that pandemic restrictions couldn't separate them.

I would add this to their personal section myself, but I don't have the requisite account seasoning of 10 edits. Also, I'm really not sure how much detail to include. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A601:ACA4:1100:5999:B69:CAF1:194 (talk) 08:48, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

References

British/English

The page has mentioned Penny as British for a while now, so this should be the default until a resolution is reached.

Penny consistently refers to themselves as British in bios and in articles, see for example: https://laurie-penny.com/on-brexit-for-time-magazine/ https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-want-my-country-back https://gawker.com/5899046/ryan-gosling-saved-me-from-a-speeding-car-but-theres-war-in-the-middle-east-so-everyone-calm-down

Penny's background, according to Penny, is "Jewish, Irish, Maltese". That supports considering Penny as a more general British rather than the specific English. 185.104.171.158 (talk) 08:05, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Authority Control :: National Libraries

Interesting. They/She is catalogued in Norway, Germany, Israel, United States but not British Library, eh. Oversight? Can some editor&librarian fix this? Can you tell me who to contact to get it fixed? Renesansowa.bialoglowa 13:09, 16 November 2022 (UTC)