Talk:Leprechaun/Archive 2

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Reference format

Although there's nothing wrong with reference format currently being used, there's a big hidden comment at the top requesting people not to change it and referring to http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5885. However, that bug has been fixed for almost a year now; is there still any particular reason the article can't be converted over to the more popular cite.php format? —Angr 12:02, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

An update is long overdue. Maybe I'll get around to it. If someone else wants to, fine by me too. DreamGuy (talk) 20:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Removed pending citation...

According to folklore, the Leprechaun was once part of a community called "Luchor-pan or the wee bodies. Over time, the name became corrupted and this corruption gave rise to the notion that "brog " or shoe was part of the name. Thus, Leprechauns became shoemakers to the Good People, as well as the protector of their treasures. And, for whatever reason, Leprechauns were identified with some very anti-social personality traits, including irascibility, cunning, doubletalk and a liking for their own company.

In Co. Kildare, the name "Lurikeen" appears to be the name for Leprechaun and there are still other monikers elsewhere, but throughout the country, the folklore is the same when it comes to his haunts, habits and hidden crocks of gold. If you should wish to seek one out, they're usually found near very old castles, and they're always engaged in making shoes, but always one - never a pair.

- Francis Tyers · 18:09, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah good call, looks a bit odd. I have some books I'll check later. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
@Francis Tyers and Casliber: The "Luchor-pan" is poorly spelt, and had you searched on this keyword, it may have led to your premature conclusions.
Actually though, "luchorpán" appears in the Fergus mac Léti saga, and Binchy ed. (JSTOR 30007384), footnote, p. 41, n2 states: "This seems to be the earliest reference in the extant literature to the luchorp(án), later metathesized into luchrapán, lupraccán (whence Anglo-Ir. 'leprechaun'),..."[1] --Kiyoweap (talk) 13:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
You gonna add then? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:49, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Harry Potter

Leprechauns are also shown as the Irish International Quidditch Team mascots by J.K. Rowling in her book 'Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire'.Roohani Kumar (talk) 10:43, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Allingham Poem

I have read the Allingham poem several times. The lines in this article Are not in the poem, The Lepracaun; or Fairy Shoemaker! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.246.112 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Allingham lived and died in the 19th century. I'll try to correct the description of him as an eighteenth-century poet, but if the technology baffles me I hope someone else does it. Campolongo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.36.214.251 (talk) 08:19, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Is Leprechaun originally an Irish term?

Hello, I'm Irish and I honestly thought Leprechauns had no actual roots in Ireland whatsoever. There are a lot of legends in Ireland, and though I've heard of "litle people" or fairies (which may or may not be the Tuatha De Danann or related to them), of Tir na nOg, and the Children of Lir, but outside of American-based media, I've yet to hear legends where leprechauns are present. I guess what I'm asking is, when was the word leprechaun first used in stories? No-one I know has heard of them outside of movies86.46.246.49 (talk) 01:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but the term comes from the Latin term Luperci, a group linked to a Roman festival. The feast included a purification ritual involving swimming and, like the Luperci, leprechauns are associated with water in what may be their first appearance in early Irish literature. According to an Old Irish tale known as The Adventure of Fergus son of Léti, leprechauns carried the sleeping Fergus out to sea. http://www.dil.ie/search?search_in=headword&q=luchorpán 194.207.86.26 (talk) 08:50, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Fairy rings and forts

I have removed this from the lead: "Leprechauns and other creatures of Irish folklore are often associated with "faerie forts" or "faerie rings"[citation needed] — often the sites of ancient (Celtic or pre-Celtic) earthworks or drumlins.".

I tried to find a reliable source for this, and a trawl on Google News, Books and Scholar came up blank. This is not verifiable. Fences and windows (talk) 20:58, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Derogatory Use

The following is given under the Politics section :

"The term leprechaun language, has been used by some Unionists in Northern Ireland, and is a pejorative for the Irish language."

This is really not related to politics, the fact that it is used by Northern Irish protestants wishing to make derogatory comments, who are most likely Unionists, is not the same as it being used politically. My guess is that it was placed here as an attempted insult, rather than actually being informative.

Suggest that it is removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.237.142.20 (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Clean-up

The references were in need of some clean-up, which I have begun. I have converted them to the standard format, ignoring the notice, which seems to have been placed there years ago. The folklore section still needs references; I plan on adding some soon from Yeats's book. Lesgles (talk) 17:15, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The female of the species?

Although I am Irish I never wondered until now where leprechauns come from. Where are their mothers? Why is the story of the female of the species never told? Leprechauns are always spoken of as isolated men, unsocial creatures who do not consort in groups, with no females to speak of. How do they reproduce?♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ It is clear that important facts have been withheld by Tradition.

Pot of gold

Is this a modern myth? That the leprechaun has a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, etc? I see a search on Google Books turns up a good number of references. --HighKing (talk) 11:12, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

Scientifically speaking, there's a protein related to bone growth called "leucine proline-enriched proteoglycan" (leprecan) 1 Doubtfull that the monks would have understood that. Perhaps Leper's Kin. Maybe there is a tie between leprosy and the short stature. Maybe they got a pot o gold from their dead leper parent, or the church. Maybe they fix shoes because there legs had fallen off, that would be in line with their humor...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprecan

Could this be the true source of the word? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Somejeff (talk • contribs) 19:21, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

No. Fences&Windows 16:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


pop culture

A link should be put to here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Leprechaun_films

I cannot do it as the page is protected — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.96.60 (talk) 15:38, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Popular culture

This section reads:

Films, television cartoons and advertising have popularised a specific image of leprechauns which bears scant resemblance to anything found in the cycles of Irish folklore. Irish people can find the popularised image of a leprechaun to be little more than a series of Irish stereotypes.[1]

Yet except for some varieties wearing red coats rather than green, the physical descriptions of leprechauns in this article is, in fact, very similar to what popular culture depicts. From Thomas Keightley's 1870 "The Leprechaun in the Garden" from The Fairy Mythology: Illustrative of the Romance and Superstition of Various Countries"

…a bit of an ould man, not a quarther so big as a newborn child, wid a little' cocked hat an his head, an' a dudeen in his mouth, smokin' away; an' a plain, ould-fashioned, dhrab-coloured coat, wid big brass buttons upon it, an his back, an' a pair o' massy silver buckles in his shoes, that a'most covered his feet they war so big, an' be workin' away as hard as ivir he could, heelin' a little pair o' pumps.

The first sentence of the "Popular culture" section appears to contradict both the rest of the article and this 1870 Irish-folklore description. As for the second sentence, without the exact quote and a little more information (publisher, year, etc.) about the book in order to be able to tell if it's a scholarly text or simply some mass-market work of lesser academic provenance, it's hard to judge how factual that claim is, and whether it's of undue weight. --Tenebrae (talk) 17:44, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

That doesn't answer the question on whether or not Irish people find Leprechauns to be an offensive stereotype or not, though. There is only one source used (which doesn't actually link to anything) and the section lacks any significant context. I have personally never heard of any Irish man or woman taking offence to Leprechauns being portrayed as they currently are in pop culture. I seriously doubt the word is used as a racial slur which the section is almost implying in a way. As there is no info on the source that has been used, I'd agree it's pretty useless at the moment and only open to guess-work. It certainly doesn't look promising in favour of the source though being academic or dare I say it, reliable. The entire section reads like nationalist nit-picking and was probably written by a patriotic person with hang-ups. But that's just a guess and all ^__^ oh yeah, the section should be deleted. It's useless and brings nothing to the article in terms of quality. --Τασουλα (talk) 01:40, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Negra, Diane The Irish in Us. [page needed]

Christianity causing the decrease in size of Leprechauns

I erased the following statement: "When Christianity took religious precedence, the importance (and thus, the size) of the leprechauns decreased.[1]"

My reasoning is that the citation didn't support the claim. If there is support for the claim, it needs to be properly cited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hateloveschool (talk • contribs) 12:08, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Only the Gods are Real

Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2014

Once a lepricanno looses his bling he no longer has da magicalll powas. Lucky Man Charm162.78.70.162 (talk) 18:11, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. --Anon126 (talk - contribs) 23:10, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2014

es un bicho ke come cosas, y un dia me dijo k quemara cosas, y queme la casa...217.126.246.78 (talk) 11:28, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (t • e • c) 11:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
It's a Ralph Wiggum reference: "he told me to burn things" etc.--NoSnakesInIreland (talk) 22:40, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2014

Where it says country on the right side, it says "Ireland, UK". Ireland is not in the UK. 90.214.71.107 (talk) 13:28, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Done --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 06:51, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Reference note #5 -- dead link

Fresh one: http://edil.qub.ac.uk/dictionary/results-new.php?srch=luchorp&dictionary_choice=edil_2012 176.221.120.203 (talk) 22:24, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 April 2016

Category:Supernatural legends 76.88.107.122 (talk) 01:59, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Done - Thanks for your contribution to Wikipedia
In future, please state more specifically, what exactly you'd like to change. In this case "Please add this article to Category:Supernatural legends. Thank you." would have been appropriate. fredgandt 03:09, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Neutrality

This article seems to apply that it's a fact that Leprechauns are offensive to the Irish, and that all modern uses of Leprechauns are offensive stereotypes of Irish. However, that is an opinion, not a fact. While it may be a popular opinion, it's not even close to being an universally accepted fact as the article implies. JDDJS (talk) 21:20, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

There's certainly a sizable contingent that finds many of the cartoon depictions to be an example of offensive, ethnic stereotyping. I think there are some sources for this in the Anti-Irish sentiment article, which I've linked with a modification of the text. I'll see if I can flesh out the sourcing some more tomorrow (urgh, of all days). Best, - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 01:20, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

There might be a notable amount of people who find it offensive, and that can be included in the article. But the way it was worded implied that it was an universally accepted fact that Leprechauns are offensive, and that's not true. If you want to add a section discussing the opinion that Leprechauns are racist, I agree, but it has to be clear that it's opinion and not fact. JDDJS (talk) 01:54, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Rather that just hitting "undo", you need to read the rewording, and the sourcing. The goal here is to report the viewpoint, but you are trying to just delete it entirely via edit-warring and POV pushing. Re-read what you reverted. I plan on returning the neutral version with more sourcing, but it would be more collegial of you to self-revert. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 19:59, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
Two edits is not editing warring. I did read it, and it still came off as bias. If you go through​previous discussions, editors have bought up in the past that it comes off as bias. There was only one source​. Saying that every single modern appearance of Leprechauns is racist is a very big accusation and requires multiple sources. When you only have one source, it sounds more like a fringe theory. JDDJS (talk) 20:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
Language is obviously very important, so let's look at some of the language in use here. There are two sentences or short paragraphs in dispute:
  1. Modern depictions of leprechauns are largely based on derogatory 19th-century caricatures and stereotypes of the Irish.
  2. Films, television cartoons and advertising have popularised a specific image of leprechauns which bears scant resemblance to anything found in the cycles of Irish folklore. Irish people can find the popularised image of a leprechaun to be little more than a series of stereotypes of the Irish.
So, "the article seems to apply that it's a fact that Leprechauns are offensive to the Irish, and that all modern uses of Leprechauns are offensive stereotypes of Irish" is a gross misrepresentation. 99% of the article is not about modern depictions at all, the first short sentence makes no mention of anybody's feelings, and the second merely notes that Irish people can find the modern image to be a stereotype. The word "offensive" is never used. But to go on and say that it says "that every single modern appearance of Leprechauns is racist", well, that just doesn't reflect reality at all.
Modern depictions of leprechauns are largely based on derogatory 19th-century caricatures and stereotypes of the Irish. This is a simple statement of fact, it is sourced, and it is very obviously true. You have only to look at a 19th-century caricature like this one to see that this is what they are derived from (there are plenty more images at Commons:Category:Anti-Irish discrimination). To change that to "Some Irish people believe that..." is not only to add weasel words but to misrepresent the cited source.
Films, television cartoons and advertising have popularised a specific image of leprechauns which bears scant resemblance to anything found in the cycles of Irish folklore – again, factual, sourced and very obviously true. The images of leprechauns in Irish folklore are described in detail in the article. Nobody could seriously claim that this character bears any more than a scant resemblance, never mind the Lucky Charms leprechaun or the Fighting Irish leprechaun. Saying "Leprechauns frequently have appeared in films, television cartoons and advertising" is like saying "African Americans frequently have appeared in films, television cartoons and advertising." It tells you nothing about how they appeared.
I appreciate anybody trying to maintain NPOV in an article, but NPOV involves representing all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources. Deleting sourced content because you don't think it sounds nice has nothing to do with NPOV. Scolaire (talk) 09:38, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Irish editors need to tone down the victimization themes in Irish articles. There is very little room to argue that the Lucky Charms Lep, the Notre Dame mascot, or Lep floats in Boston parades are 'offensive stereotypes', considering they were either invented by or in honor of the American Irish. Lucky Charms was invented by John Holahan, an Irish American, and none of the American Irish find Lucky offensive; the Boston floats are built every year by Irish-American Bostonians (Boston is America's 'Irish city'). I'm sure you can find sources in which Irish authors are offended or even outraged over these images (and it looks like you did), but this is a fringe view that's being given unwarranted attention in this article. 19th Century depictions of leprechauns have absolutely nothing to do with how the Irish and American Irish generally feel about modern images.Jonathan f1 (talk) 01:08, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

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Issue of stereotypes in lede

It belongs in the lede. Stop edit-warring, 420. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 00:58, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

I disagree. Some people may consider modern depictions of them racist, but it's far from universally accepted. JDDJS (talk) 19:30, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

CorbieV you made just as many reverts as me. Or do rules regarding what is and isn't edit warring apply differently once you become an admin?

Also, excuse me if I'm not immediately persuaded by "It belongs in the lede." - you might actually have to expand a little on that comment, or does "It belongs here, because I say so" usually make people agree with your point of view?

I don't consider the fact that some people might consider leprechauns to be some form of stereotypical to be notable enough for the lede. It's not even close to being notable enough for the lede. Now where the fook are me lucky charms? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:44, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Leprechauns in popular culture

In the Boston Celtics section, I suggest that you put a comma before "Lucky the Leprechaun", and also that you find an article about the mascot itself, or delete the link. The link for "Lucky the Leprechaun" leads to the Lucky Charms Mascot, which is unrelated to the Boston Celtics --Nbissocool (talk) 13:04, 26 October 2018 (UTC)Nbissocool

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2019

In the See also section, pls change "*Lucky Charms" to "*Good luck charm".

Thank you. 121.44.183.127 (talk) 13:41, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

 Not done. Why? The former has a leprechaun as its mascot, while the latter article makes no mention of leprechauns. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 21:08, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Ah, understand the intended connection now. All good. Thx. 121.44.183.127 (talk) 11:24, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
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