Talk:Let the Blind Lead Those Who Can See but Cannot Feel

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Good articleLet the Blind Lead Those Who Can See but Cannot Feel has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 14, 2009Good article nomineeListed

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Let the Blind Lead Those Who Can See but Cannot Feel/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cannibaloki 15:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Checklist[edit]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance:
    Wikipedia:How to fix bunched-up edit links will help you on the disposal of sound samples in the production section.--Cannibaloki 18:57, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Used {{stack}} to fix that. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Why you do not use the template:tracklist?--Cannibaloki 23:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I suppose because all of the extra credits and such that template allows you to add wouldn't be necessary here. Every song was written and recorded by Bradford Cox. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 00:07, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    Is Prefix Magazine a reliable source? (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prefix Magazine)--Cannibaloki 18:57, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Hadn't seen that; too bad. I looked around on their website for something to assert its reliability, but I couldn't find anything. I'll look around a bit more, but it would seem the guys in the AfD already determined there isn't much in the way of external sources. Although, as described in WP:RS#Statements of opinion, a questionable source may still be used if it is being used for opinion. Prefix is referenced in the Reception section, and it's just a review, no news reporting or interviews. It could possibly stay on those grounds. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    "In an interview with Pitchfork Media, Cox described the lyrical origins of each song on Let the Blind Lead; they are largely autobiographical in nature, reflecting life experiences of his." And the music? What are the musical origins of each song on Let the Blind Lead?
    The music really has no origins. I was going to expand on his music-making process with this interview ([1]), but in light of the above statements, I'll probably have to find something else.
    I suggest you to use this source for that interview, but not for the review. See also this source and its related articles.--Cannibaloki 23:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    The interview and not the review? All right. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 00:07, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
    Add alternative text for both album covers please. Can you provide a suitable caption for the image of Bradford Cox? Anyway is that image relevant in this article?--Cannibaloki 18:57, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    The image wasn't added by me. It's a "purely decorative" image, and free, so is it being there an issue? Also, alt text is not a requirement for WP:GA?, but I'll try to come up with some. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I've put some alt text on the US cover and the concert photo. I'm not great at it, though, and I don't even know how to describe the European cover in words. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 22:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    On hold for a week.--Cannibaloki 18:57, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I have a lot to do tonight, so I'll probably have to wait until tomorrow to work through your comments. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Passed.--Cannibaloki 04:53, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Doing...--Cannibaloki 15:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

  • "Let the Blind Lead Those Who Can See but Cannot Feel is the first studio album by Atlas Sound, the musical solo project of Deerhunter lead vocalist Bradford Cox."
Got it. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The album was released on February 19, 2008 on the independent record label Kranky Records [in North America], and on May 5, 2008 on 4AD in Europe." or The album was released in North America by Kranky Records on February 19, 2008 and in Europe by 4AD on May 5, 2008. or The album was released in 2008 through two independent record labels, in North America by Kranky Records on February 19, and in Europe by 4AD on May 5.
Used the second one. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The music of Atlas Sound utilizes computer-based MIDI instruments..." What instruments?
I haven't seen exactly what fake instruments he used described anywhere, but I'll look around. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Foote also helped in selection of equipment that would be used on the record." Of what kind and what are these equipments?
From the Pitchfork interview: Pitchfork: What was the role that Nudge's Brian Foote played on this album? You mentioned him on your blog. / Cox: He picked out the equipment that I used. I would have had no idea what to choose. He showed me the basics of the software, which I would have been hopeless without.
If you think it's too vague, I can take it out. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "All of the lyrics on the album were created as they were being recorded on the first take." This sentence should not be in the lyrical content section?
The lyrics section notes that Cox ad-libbed all his songs; this sentence explains how the album is "stream-of-consciousness" in nature.
Ideally, this sentence would read, All of the lyrics on the album were created as they were being recorded on the first take, and also here is something about the music creation process. Cox is stream-of-consciousness with his Lyrical content and Musical content; this sentence in the Production section would provide a brief overview of those two concepts. Unfortunately, I can't use the Prefix interview I have in which Cox describes how he constructs songs. I'm still looking for something else to use along those lines. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "[It's] kind of like you are able to see, but you might not know the right direction to go in. But somebody who can't see might—just by instinct—lead you that way." Cox said this?
Indeed he did; clarified. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've made some changes to Production and Musical content; tell me what you think. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I saw that you expanded the text, but the difference between the Musical content and Lyrical content sections, is the rich detail of the latter. An alternative is you summarize the Lyrical content merging it with the Musical content section. Also, why you ignored this edit (the lead section should be about two paragraphs, the first for the album's description and the second for critical reception). Have you removed the Prefix Magazine review? "The European album artwork was created by v23, a group that designs cover art for label 4AD." Why the European artwork was created and what kind of concept is behind this album cover?--Cannibaloki 23:57, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm sorry I didn't pick up that edit to the lead as a prompt. I've tried to expand the lead. I'm definitely not interested in reducing the size of the lyrics section; it's what makes this article interesting. I'll try to expand the music section; is another paragraph enough of a balance for you? Also working on finding a replacement for the Prefix quote, although I'm not sure I understand why the interview would fly as an RS and not the review. (despite me writing "that's too bad" farther up the page, I think Prefix can pass as an RS; that deletion discussion was for notability anyway, not reliability) --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 01:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've swapped out the Prefix Magazine review. Unfortunately, as with the Brian Foote stuff, I haven't found anything on v23. The 4AD website offers no insight, and internet searching didn't get me anywhere. The music section has been made beefier, but I couldn't pull another paragraph, and I don't know that I'll be able to now, looking through what's out there. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 02:45, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the infobox, you put ambient and shoegaze as the album's genres, why? Use what the critics says about this album in terms of genres and expand the musical content section. Ah, I suggest you to use this organization.--Cannibaloki 18:36, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've used your structuring suggestion, which is more in line with the other album articles I've worked on anyway, by separating production and music. I've changed the genres to be ambient, psychedelic, and pop, which are the three terms most often used by Cox and music critics. Shoegaze as I understand it is more about this really thick guitar sound and stuff. I don't know that that's what this album really is, and I've never heard or read the album described as being shoegazing. I've added another paragraph to the music section, although it isn't as long as the others. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 23:30, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not exactly, you should use the same layout. Genres okay. Is Delusions of Adequacy a reliable source? Why you considered it a professional review?--Cannibaloki 21:18, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delusions is listed on Metacritic, which strives to only select publications that are "well-regarded in the industry and were known for quality reviews...produce quality reviews...[and] had a good quantity of reviews." [2]
Other than this RS issue (and any others?) do you have any other problems with the article? Do you think the Major Aspects are now adequately covered? There's not much time left. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 03:38, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No and yes ;-), but I did a cleanup to improve the article's layout. I hope you do not have objections.--Cannibaloki 04:38, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly not. And thanks a lot for the review, it's made the article way better. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 04:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Okay guy, the article now meet the good article criteria.--Cannibaloki 04:51, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On genres[edit]

Arguing about what genres go in the infobox is probably a bad idea, but I really don't think this album is indie rock. In the interest of proving my point, I've collected some quotes from the music reviews used in this article that refer to Let the Blind Lead as psychedelic, pop, or ambient in nature.

  • Magnet: "a solo album awash in a vaguely psychedelic haze".
  • Pitchfork: "The result is a gauzy bedroom pop album that drifts from ambient bliss-outs to sadsack avant-garage". The reviewer also notes that various tracks evoke the styles of pop, psychedelia, or ambient. Also, dude is making up musical styles of his own like "bliss-out" and "avant-garage", and that's a bit odd.
  • Paste: "Let the Blind doesn’t have Cryptograms’ wandering, ambient tracks". (this one goes against my point, but I thought I'd include it anyway)
  • PopMatters: "Cox’s bedroom-recorded solo debut oozes warm (but in spots quite chilling) psychedelia [...] Cox allows for less straight rock tendencies to filter into the recordings than those that characterize...Deerhunter. Cryptograms and Let the Blind Lead share more than a moment or two of ambient similarity."
  • Slant: "The ambient passages ("On Guard," "Winter Vacation," "Ready, Set, Glow") are thoroughly unremarkable".
  • Tiny Mix Tapes: "Where Deerhunter focus on post-punk tempos built around atmospheric backdrops, Atlas Sound’s focus is more on pop atmosphere."
  • Delusions of Adequacy "A lot of the same Deerhunter characteristics occupy Let the Blind…: ambient instrumentals, isolated lyrics and that cool psychedelia"

If you don't agree with me, at least you can see where I'm coming from. In reading the reviews of music critics to work on this article, this is the impression I got in terms of genres. I understand that my own opinion can color it as well, though. Shoegaze used to be listed there, and I took that off because I didn't think this album was shoegaze. At the same time, one critic referred to part of Let the Blind Lead as having elements of shoegazing music. If anything, can we at least put ambient on there? That has to be the most definitive way to define this record, and surely you think Let the Blind Lead is ambient music. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 00:14, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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