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Page purpose
Hmmm this is where you post bulletins about anything so we can get back to you.
Jimmy Star
I wonder if anyone will ever use this? yo wats up my name is sao joe
No - this is where you discuss changes to the article. --maveric149
Why doesn't Limerick direct here? It is a much much more commonly used to refer to the form of poetry than to the physical location.
- People in Limerick might disagree on that. Which link should refer to Limerick then? Also, Limerick gives its name to this kind of poetry, not vice versa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.125.12.123 (talk) 21:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Charlie Murphy? I've never heard him recite a limerick. I assume this is vandalism? Tudwell 02:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Rhythm
Would anyone object to changing it to more properly explain the Rhythm of a limerick? It is not based on amphibrachs, but on iambs and anapests, possibly with feminine or dactylic rhyme. I can show sources about this. Metzby 07:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
More technical information about limericks would be good - the page is currently dominated by lists of examples. Ewx 08:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
80.200.246.35 (talk) 10:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
New post, different person:
I agree with this. I wrote the following on the discussion page of the amphibrach:
Aren't limericks really constructed of three dactylic feet(loud soft soft), the last one being a catlectic (unfinished)?
So, instead of:
"There was a | young lady | of Wantage"
you would get:
"There |was a young| La dy of | wan tage"
Looking at musical notation, this would make a lot more sense. The musical 'one' is really on the strong beats. So the word "there" really is a type of up-beat, like you get at the beginning of a lot of music, both classical and popular.
It is very easy to put limericks to music, but if you do, you'll find that they are a waltz, in 3/4 time. This means that the strong beats have to be on the first beat. Therefore, at least in my opinion, the first line of a limerick really consists of three dactylic feet, not anapestic ones.
The extra word "There" is just an up-beat, an extra unstressed syllable before the real thing begins. I'd be interested to hear people's ideas on this!
Wags1959 (talk) 00:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC):
The rhythm section (pun intended) has been deleted and probably needs to be reassembled under the current heading of "Form". Bottom-line, there has never been complete agreement over the components of Limerical prosody. You can deconstruct Limericks into amphibrachs, anapests or dactyls and preface them with iambs to boot. I'll spend some time trying to put together words to this effect along with references. BTW--I belong to the "Limericks are essentially anapestic" school of thought.
The thing is, putting them into musical notation proves nothing. In musical notation, bars start with a strong beat by definition. If you put barlines into iambic pentameter (such as many of Shakespeare's lines, e.g. "Two |households |both a- |like in |digni- |ty"), it looks trochaic; but that floating unstressed syllable at the start of the line makes all the difference. 91.107.189.76 (talk) 23:49, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Scan
Fair maiden
"There was a fair maiden of Exeter
Who was so cute that guys craned their necks at her
And even one brave
Young fellow did wave
The distinguishing mark of his sex at her."
doesn't scan, the second line is too long and has emphasis in the wrong places.
-- SGBailey 2003-12-16
I've now changed the above to a better scanning variant. -- SGBailey 2003-12-16
There 'was a fair 'maiden of 'Exeter
Who was 'so cute that 'guys craned their 'necks at her
And 'even one 'brave
Young 'fellow did 'wave
The dis'tinguishing 'mark of his 'sex at her.
Each line in itself scan OK, though you might be tempted to try "so 'cute". "Brave" is weak, though, as it links the 3rd and 4th line, and hence the unweary will interpret it as a noun. Your version is better there.
What is wrong with the scan is that the (top) lines don't have the same structure. Eg. with the same second line, this version doesn't seem as bad:
There once 'was a fair 'maiden of 'Exeter
Who was 'so cute that 'guys craned their 'nexeter;
And 'even one 'brave
Did 'take out and 'wave
The dis'tinguishing 'mark of his 'sexeter.
Should we add this requirement to the structure text? Aliter 15:54, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
Better young lady of Exeter
I've heard a version I think a good deal more highly of than the suggestions above:
There was a young lady of Exeter
So fair, that men craned their necks at 'er.
One went so far
As to wave from his car
The distinguishing mark of his sex at 'er.
Not only scans and rhymes nicely, but avoids the style collisions of "fair maiden", "cute", and "guys". And the car's funny.--Bishonen | talk 10:36, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
I don't know what sugestions you're talking about, but I don't see how the version you quote scans better than the version SGBailey contributed. It may be, though, that you place the stress different from how I read it; I can't tell for sure. (Also, how is it that "guys" is a style collision but "car" is funny?) Aliter 14:38, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
Halisbury-Scalisbury
Also
"There was a young curate of Sarum (Salisbury)
Whose manners were ALL harem-scarem (Halisbury-Scalisbury)
He wandered round Hants (Hampshire)
Without any pants (pampshire)
Till the Vicar compelled him to Wear'em (Warisbury)"
Again the scan isn't quite right. Line two would be better with padding such as ALL added and the last line isn't quite balanced... -- SGBailey 2003-12-16
Again, due to the lines not being equally formed, in my opinion. Consider how this final line would fit:
Should we add translations to the foreign Limericks? If so, is there anyone here who can read them? Aliter 15:54, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
I could translate German and Spanish
Early examples?
I'm reluctant to simply cut the whole section, but of the 'early examples': 'sumer is icumen in' doesn't remotely fit the limerick model, and nor do any of its constituent parts:
Sumer is ycomen in,
Loude sing cuckou!
Groweth seed and bloweth meed,
And springth the wode now.
Sing cuckou!
Ewe bleteth after lamb,
Loweth after calve cow,
Bulloc sterteth, bucke verteth,
Merye sing cuckou!
Cuckou, cuckou,
Wel singest thou cuckou:
Ne swik thou never now!
You can't even pick out the aabba rhyme-scheme from that, let alone in combination with the right metre.
The excerpt from 'Tom o' Bedlam' meets neither the metrical requirements nor, properly, the rhyme-scheme.
Since the examples from Shakespeare are not actually given, I can't judge them, but if they're anything like these examples, they don't fit the form; and anyway, you can't just take five lines out of context from a play and call it a 'limerick'. Does anyone have these examples? Because bits of coincidental similarity are not very relevent to the early history of the form. Harry R 11:22, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Lear
How do we know Lear's verses were typeset as four lines? I've now seen a few pages of his work, and they were typeset as three. Aliter 21:01, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
??? Where have you seen this? I have in front of me an edition of "Nonsense Books. By Edward Lear." Published in 1888 in Boston by Roberts Brothers. All of the limericks are typeset as four lines.
I also have a modern edition, "The Complete Nonsense of Edward Lear, Collected and Introduced by Holbrook Jackson," "This Dover edition, first published in 1951, is an unabridged and unaltered republication of the workd originally published by Faber and Faber Ltd. in 1947." All of the limericks are typeset as four lines.
I don't even understand how a limerick could be typeset as three lines. Modern limericks are usually typeset as five lines, and the usual error is to reproduce Lear's limericks in the same way. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith(talk)]] 22:20, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Well, things are slightly more complicated than we thought at first. I've never seen a four-line Lear, but looking for an example of this I also found this. Aliter 22:26, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
That's very interesting. Those are certainly earlier sources than mine. Here's a page from my 1888 edition: Four-line formatting. Sorry for my casual misinformation, I've always seen older editions of Lear set as four lines and been irritated by newer editions setting them as five (as modern limericks always are). But apparently the story is complicated. One short, casual biography of Lear, Mr. Nonsense by Emery Kelen, gives no information on this. I wonder how he wrote them in manuscript? I wonder how much input he had into the format as typeset? Isn't it annoying that the nonsenselit site doesn't give any page images of the type in the interior pages... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith(talk)]] 11:38, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I've written to the writer of <http://www.nonsenselit.org>, who has informed me that Mr. Lear wrote them in manuscript basically in as much lines as there was room for beneath the picture. But in the first three editions, most are typeset as, respectively, three, five, and three lines. (The two-line example, I expect, again was a matter of available space.) I'll reword the note a bit. Aliter 23:34, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Early French example
Having done so I suddenly realized "A French example, from 1715" would be very early. Could it be it's merely about that year, rather than from? Aliter 00:20, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The contributor informed that the year is correct. What does that tell us about Limericks?
Salisbury
Can we expect the user to fill in the blanks, or do we really need to write this out? Aliter 14:18, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Re-writing
Does anybody care to take up the challenge of re-casting this article into limerick form? --Carnildo 06:30, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Someone wouldn't get it and it would be on VfD an hour later. —Ben Brockert(42)UE News 07:01, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
Verdun
"There was a young man of Verdun
...which if completed would be a self-contradiction"
Maybe I'm just naïve, but I don't follow this train of thought. How would it be a self-contradiction? Kakashi-sensei 16:09, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The rhyming pattern clearly implies a second line of "whose limericks stopped at line one" --Carnildo 17:33, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Early example and true limerick
I took out all of this, for now, which is based on the claim that the "true limerick" is based on the dactylic. The claim does not fit very well with the current decription of the structure. If it could be substantiated, the claim should be incorporate in Structure, rather than History. Likwise, the rest, once made internally consistent, could then form a first paragraph of history about fore-runners or somesuch.
Start:
The dactylic (long-short-short or 'tum-ti-ti') 'foot' or metric unit, on which the true limerick is based, goes back to classical Greece and is found in English poetry, usually of a humorous or satirical kind, from the middle thirteenth century - e.g. the political lyric Richard the Redeless, which begins (spelling modernised)
Sitteth all still and heark'neth to me!
By about 1500 this pattern was being applied in six-line stanzas which come very close to the limerick form. An early Tudor example, poking fun at the local cult of a Norfolk (U.K.) vicar who is said to have trapped the Devil in a boot, runs
Master John Shorne,
That blessèd man born,
For the ague to him we apply,
That juggleth with a boot;
I beshrew his heart-root
That will trust him, an it be I.
There is a very early example of the developed five-line form in the Cornish folksong Camborne Hill, which is supposed to commemorate Richard Trevithick's early experiments in steam-travel and should therefore date from about 1802:
Hi Aliter, I see you reverted my change where I merged the naughty limerick from the autofellatio page into the article. I think it's weird for us to mention that use of the limerick but not provide any further clarification. We can't omit mentioning that use completely because its so popular. --Gmaxwell 18:25, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
What I did was really to revert SPUI's addition of "sometimes about autofellatio". You did clarifiy his remark somewhat, but in my opinion the remark does not add anything.
Those unable to produce lewd rhymes for Nantucket are not likely to benefit from that remark either. "Sometimes" already indicates that it's not all that relevant, all the more so because it's purely a matter of rhyme; if the topic of autofelatio was of importance in limericks, then the actual word "autofelatio", or other equivalents, would also appear regularly.
As it is, this addition just adds words, without adding information. If you feel the relation is relevant to autofelatio, you might consider adding it there instead. Aliter 18:40, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Favourite Limericks
Maybe there should be a special page for Wikipedians' favourite limericks. I'll go first:
There was a young man from Belgrave
Who kept a dead whore in a cave
He said "I admit
I'm a bit of a shit,
But think of the money I save".JackofOz 12:35, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I think this one flows a little better if you insert "have to" into line 3, making it:
There was a young man from Belgrave
Who kept a dead whore in a cave
He said "I have to admit
I'm a bit of a shit,
But think of the money I save".
If you say it out loud, it flows better, even if it's not exactly according to the meter.RSido 02:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I can't see what you are referring to. When I read the first version it reads perfectly. When I read the second, the third line is way too long. In order to make it work you have to cram the first four words into two sylable spaces. Those two lines become aaabaabaabaab instead of abaabaabaab. The entire structure is of the aba sequence. deepsack (talk) 08:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
The article attributes this limerick to Sir Arthur Sullivan, but I've always thought it was by W. S. Gilbert. Is there any evidence one way or the other? AndrewWTaylor 07:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I also have heard it was Gilberts. I'm going to change it, pending actual sourcing one way or another. JesseW, the juggling janitor 01:53, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm very confused here. How can these be limericks when a limerick requires rhymes? Isn't that a contradiction? Wouldn't these just be poems with a limerick like meter? deepsack (talk) 08:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
deepsack, note that it's in a section entitled 'Anti-limericks', so, you're right, this isn't a limerick, but rather (as the article says) a parody of a limerick, subverting the structure of the limerick by deliberately eschewing the expected rhyme. -- Jmc (talk) 09:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
To state the obvious: the rhyme is replaced by ending each line with the name of a stinging hymenopterid. This gives a sense that there is some sort of deeper connection than rhyme. That is why Dundee does not work while St. Bees does. 72.94.103.160 (talk) 22:56, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
The Gay Caballero??
Limericks, when sung, are almost exclusively sung to the tune of "The Gay Caballero".
and
Limericks have been propagated in the English language primarily through being sung.
Really?? I have rarely heard limericks sung, I'd never heard of "The Gay Caballero" before I looked it up today (though admittedly it is in limerick form), and I have no idea how it goes. Googling doesn't produce many relevant results. I also notice that the section about tunes was added on 1st April. Can anyone produce any evidence to support this claim? If not I reckon it should be deleted. Blisco 20:01, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
OK, seeing as no-one's responded to this I've gone ahead and deleted all references to sung limericks. It may be true that limericks are sometimes sung, but the text as it stood was almost certainly untrue and of very limited notability. Blisco 19:50, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
The 'Sung limericks' section seems to have crept back in again, in an even more confused and confusing form. To quote: "Limericks have been sung as a traditional humorous drinking song with mostly obscene verses. The song ...". Are we talking about sung limericks in general or one song in particular?
My main objection, however, is that the inclusion of such a long and detailed section on a (apparently) single limerick greatly unbalances the article.
Given the various demurrals, including those of Blisco above, which still stand, I propose to (once more) remove the 'Sung limericks' section.
--Jmc 19:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Absent any feedback on my proposal, I've repeated Blisco's deletion of references to sung limericks (27 April 2006), with the same rationale: "the text as it stood was almost certainly untrue and of very limited notability". -- Jmc (talk) 19:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Lear: "mostly aimed towards nonsense"
The article says Lear's limericks were "mostly aimed toward nonsense."
That seems like unnecessary weasel-wording.
Can anyone cite a single example of a Lear limerick that was not "aimed toward nonsense?"
Given that he titled his book "A Book of Nonsense" it seems clear enough that Lear regarded them as nonsense, and (pace, exponents of the New Criticism, that would seem to be evidence enough for anyone. Dpbsmith(talk) 14:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
There was an old person whose habits Induced him to feed upon rabits
When he'd eaten eighteen he turned perfectly green
Upon which he relinguished those habits
Quit logical, and also a rare instance of Lear using the modern day rhyming scheme. Mysha
Didn't this page have a history of the Limerick, something like a year ago? Mysha
Added the History section from an old edit. I don't know where it disappeared. This section also needs references. serendipitousstl (email) 19:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Wags1959 (talk) 00:49, 19 November 2008 (UTC): This whole section really needs to be redone. The current version implies these poems are Limericks and they simply aren't. When scanned their meter isn't anywhere close to the maddening anapestic cadence that is imperative to make a Limerick a Limerick.
If you're referring to the Aquinas verse, Wags1959, I'd argue for its retention. Granted that it lacks the "maddening anapestic cadence", but it does have the five-line AABBA structure which IMO qualifies it as a progenitor of the limerick. -- Jmc (talk) 09:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
I wasn't suggesting we remove the poems, just don't call them Limericks or state that they have a similar metrical cadence when they don't. The Aquinas, for instance, has an irregular meter that is mostly iambic and trochaic, but other than its AABBA rhyme scheme, it shares nothing in common with a Limerick. -- 98.195.187.118 (talk) 12:12, 19 November 2008 (UTC) -- Oops (I wasn't logged in) Wags1959 (talk) 12:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Non-comic limericks?
Is the limerick necessarily a comic verse form? Could it be a vehicle for anything other than a comic sentiment - could you have a love limerick, for example? Or a religious limerick?
Can anyone cite counter-examples? -- Jmc 03:07, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
It used to say on the page that the modern limerick had a twist, I believe, not that it had to be comical.
Oh, that's very nice, Myasha - light, but definitely not comic. Thank you! -- Jmc 20:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Naughty Version
I question the necessity of including the naughty examples. Since Wikipedia is a research tool used by young students, I feel that a statement to the effect that naughty limericks are common, would be sufficient. If we wished, we could link to websites that have the full text of such limericks. Schools that allow access to Wikipedia for their students would be protected... I'm sort of thinking out loud here.
Hubby2debbie 01:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)hubby2debbie
Is this a limerick? It's five lines, and has the right rhymes, but the meter may be off.
There once was a lawyer named Rex
In court over matters of sex
When charged with exposure
He replied with composure
"De minimis non curat lex"
(For non Latin speakers, this means "The law does not care about small ["things" understood]" RSido 00:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it's slightly off: The reason is that ideally the meter continues over the lines. Especially the two short lines are supposed to form one long one. (Is this in the article?) But combined they have three unstressed syllables, here. I expect a perfect meter is unobtainable here, due to the stress of the Latin after "compo-sure", but this fixes the short lines:
A lawyer in Roma named Rex
In court over matters of sex,
When charged with exposure,
Replied with composure:
"De minimis non curat lex."
Additionally you might want to add an unstressed syllable at the start of line two (and one). Mysha
Here's a compromise:
There's a lawyer in Rome name Rex
in court over matters of sex.
When charged with exposure,
replies with composure,
"De minimis non curat lex"
I think this is a little bit better, mostly because it changes the tense slightly to match the latin.
Well, "Rome" probably has to stay "Roma" to keep the right number of syllables. It's still a nice effort, though, but I don't think it's really necessary. The latin is, after all, a quote. It's like telling a story, when for example you say:
The difference in the tenses comes from the fact that Roland lived in the time of Charlemagne, in our past, but the words that are quoted speak of his present time. Mysha
Link to a poetry website/limericks
I would like to add a link to the "limerick" section of a live, online poetry website, this is an ongoing writing challenge for limerick writers (2000 entries in last 12 months). I tried to add the link myself, but it has been deleted!. We have permision from the Moderator.
The link is
http://www.thestarlitecafe.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?54843/103386
Can we please set this link up?....
Rowly
fhjf7yir67ir67i6r7i
Maybe add Limerickdb.com while you're at it?
Since I fail at editing things, I don't want to do it and get flagged or whatever.
Nohano (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC).
Permission obtained for mathematical limerick
I have obtained permission from the author to publish the mathematical limerick in communication conventions and sent it to the Wikipedia permissions email address
I am going to start removing limericks which are not demonstratively from public domain sources. If anyone wishes to keep or add more limericks, then DOCUMENT the source. Show that it is NOT copyrighted.
I dissent. Aside from the oddity of requiring people to prove a negative, we're dealing with folk materials, from the oral tradition here; makes it a special case. Bravo for deletions that prevent the article from becoming an anthology, but quotations that illustrate something about the topic fall within fair use, seems to me. DavidOaks 19:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank God nobody has copyright of The Pearl ...
BTW: I´m going to get permission for the Swiss/German "Keiserick" from the copyrightholders. fak119
Hello everyone. What if I write a limerick and license it for use on Wikipedia, does this entitle me to place it in a Wikipedia article? At this rate, everyone will have their limericks in the article because every will be adding their own "vanity" limericks. Someone will *still* have to go through and remove limericks, not because of copyright issues, but because the article will be unreadable.
I have started to removed no verified limericks and translations. Once that is done, I would like general recommendations on combining / merging sections. Any advise?
Well, I have the impression the article was more readable a year ago. (Somewhere in the time where you also found the disappeared history? Speaking of the history: you wrote it needed references. I wrote something on that somewehere above.) Counting the number of limericks it had then, and reducing the current number to match, might help. After that it should be easy to merge the then orphaned bits of text into proper paragraphs again. But I guess the article needs a remark "This articles does not need more examples!" at strategic points, to keep the same thing from happening again. Mysha
History Edit
Changed wording as the orgin of the word limerick is not at all obscure; the origin of its use referring to a type of poem is what is obscure. Further provided full reference for this, including for dates of first known publication.Joevanisland 20:09, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Also fixed Sumer Is Icumen In reference as it should be mid-13th century, not 1300 the year, and provided another missing citation.Joevanisland 20:21, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Citation needed?
Do you really need a citation for an example showing how limericks can involve wordplay? Clearly it involves wordplay, anyone who understands the words can tell by looking at it. I don't need an expert to verify that for me. Same for most the other examples. 'Is this a french limerick? Well it's a limerick and in french, so I better ask a professor!' I (perhaps too hopefully) assume you are really looking copyright permission? Still that likely absurd since many limericks are folk works, both old and/or with the author unknown. Thus I'm recommending removing the [citation needed] tags. 132.249.102.242 23:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Redraft of article structure
This article reads quite poorly, probably at least in part because of repeated vandalism or poorly judged contributions followed by attempts to revert or repair. I have therefore made an attempt to redraft the article structure, as well as adding in some further historical notes from my own researches. I have tried to take into account the comments made above about readability, content and citation issues. I don't claim that the work is finished, but I hope the new form is a good starting-point for others to improve it further from here.
I've removed a number of example limericks, retaining just a few which I believe illustrate specifically a portion of the article. Some of the examples I've removed are very clever, but Mysha makes a good point above about readability. This is an article about limericks (poetry), not a catalog of examples. There are several other examples I would have loved to add too, but I have tried to stay disciplined!
Further comments/suggestions welcome of course. Mooncow 00:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I should also have mentioned that I removed quite a bit of material that duplicated the entry at limerick song, replacing it with a link to that article. Mooncow 01:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Mooncow, for your redrafting - a considerable improvement, I believe. I was disappointed that Fak119 initially reverted it, though the action was perhaps understandable, given that at that stage the above background hadn't been provided. So thanks, too, for now providing that! -- Jmc 02:46, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't there a section on rhythm here? What happened to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.101.86 (talk) 20:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Over the next month or so, I intend to work on this article to fill in a number of gaps (both in content and in references). I'm currently waiting for some books I've ordered to be delivered that will serve as additional references (which this article badly needs). All my additions will be footnoted. Here are my thoughts:
(1) Add an Obscene content section at the beginning of the article that incorporates the existing Legman comments, adds some material from Isaac Asimov (a prolific naughty limerick writer in addition to his Sci-Fi expertise) and discusses "clean" limericks and their role with a specific mention of the massive OEDILF online project to create a dictionary of the English language where every definition is in (squeaky clean) limerick form. I don't think we should potentially offend some folks' sensibilities by providing an example of a filthy limerick (as much as I love 'em myself). I may also discuss and document Usenet communities dedicated to the writing of both "naughty" and "nice" lims (not sure about overall relevance yet).
(2) Add a badly needed few paragraphs on meter to the current Form section that discusses the rigid structure of the limerick from a number of POVs. I'll mention disagreements about whether the basic building block is an amphibrach, anapest or dactyl that is well-supported by numerous sources (online and books). I'll also discuss the variants.
(3) Modify the history section to fill in gaps, create a better documented red thread that shows influences, and emphasize that NONE of the examples given (I don't intend to change them) meet the definition of a limerick as it is used today (Lear's don't either, btw). The current article implies that most of the examples are limericks even though scansion would debunk this. A good discussion of prosody must be in place before I can make these modifications (see 2 above).
(4) Add a bit to the Lear section including the informal celebration of "Limerick Day" on May 12, his birthday.
(5) Add a Modern limericks section (which has previously been suggested by Jmc).
I don't intend to add any more limericks as examples (except, perhaps, in the new modern limerick section). I agree with previous remarks that the article already contains plenty. Any other ideas or thoughts? -- Wags1959 (talk) 19:23, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Ophelia's Limericks?
While this may be original research, I found that one of Ophelia's songs in Hamlet (Act 4, Scene 5) seemed to be a good example of a Limerick, namely:
And will he not come again?
And will he not come again?
No, no, he is dead;
Go to thy deathbed;
He never will come again.
His beard was as white as snow,
All flaxen was his poll.
He is gone, he is gone,
And we cast away moan.
God 'a'mercy on his soul!
We know he used limericks in King Lear and Othello. [1] Would this be important to add to the article? Orville Eastland 22:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
for deletion?
The following insertion seems unclear (to me) in its relevance, and needs sourcing -- I suggest it be deleted; thoughts? DavidOaks (talk) 21:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
The twist in the following anti-limerick is its modern play on traditional limerick identity and language.
There once was man I'll call Bardney
Who merengued his way from Miami,
To meet Irish dears,
Who served copius beers
And all he could cry was "Carajo! Pero donde esta mi arroz con pollo?"
Its relevance is unclear to me too and I agree it needs sourcing. You have my support for deletion. -- Jmc (talk) 22:43, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't look relevant to me either. I've removed it. Even if it is genuine, and an explanation could be added, we need to resist the temptation to become a catalog of limericks -- examples included need to earn their place by clearly illustrating a significant point. Mooncow (talk) 02:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
First line of Article
The way the first line reads, it suggests that any poem with a strict form is a limerick. perhaps it should read "...a poem with a strict form of..." and go in a bit deeper of what makes it a limerick in the first sentence; otherwise, you are simply saying that a limerick is a poem. Mrathel (talk) 21:43, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Form & naming
Nobody ever noticed the coincidence of a Limerick's form with the form of the song Limerick?? I really think the two must have something to do with each other... Sudika (talk) 10:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
A very old limerick
I found a Latin limerick, possibly from May 1244, in a prayer book: a contribution by St. Thomas Aquinas to the Roman Catholic Breviary (source with one scholastic, straight translation and some funny ones). It is quoted in the Latin Wikipedia: Carmen Limericum. Is there a spot in this article for it? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 16:34, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
It used to be on this page, many moons ago. It is consistent with a limerick meter, though in terms of content and intent, it's pretty far removed. I'm assuming that was the reason for the deletion. But it could be worked in as a very old example of the meter. DavidOaks (talk) 18:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough; I didn't know it was here before. I suppose people interested in Latin Limericks would go to the page in the Latin Wikipedia, so I inserted that source there. Thanks for the response. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:01, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Form -- 10 syllables in the 5th verse.
From the article: The standard form of a limerick is a stanza of five lines, with the first, second and fifth having eight or nine syllables...
I noticed that every example on this article has 10 syllables on the 5th verse (as well as the ones I know about). Does anyone know of a source with a better description of the form?74.132.154.68 (talk) 03:49, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
elimericks.com down
elimericks.com is not responding today. I have no idea if this is temporay or permanent but warrants watching 14:13, 28 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fholson (talk • contribs)
Early 18th century limerick?
I found this interesting and highly esoteric verse in the Diary of the Rev. John Tomlinson who lived in England from 1692 to 1761:
1717. Sept. 17th. One Dr. Bainbridge went from Cambridge to Oxon [Oxford] to be astronomy professor, and reading a lecture happened to say de Polis et Axis, instead of Axibus. Upon which one said, Dr. Bainbridge was sent from Cambridge,—to read lectures de Polis et Axis; but lett them that brought him hither, return him thither, and teach him his rules of syntaxis.
From "Six North Country Diaries", The Publications of the Surtees Society, Vol. CXVIII for the year MCMX, p. 78. Published by Andrews & Co., Durham etc. 1910. Nick Michael (talk) 19:44, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Is the city the primary topic of "limerick"?
Is the city of 50,000 people really the primary topic for "limerick"? I think it's fair to say that almost every literate English speaking person has heard of the poetic form. But this little town? Not nearly as well known. I notice that the page about the city was moved to Limerick, apparently without notice or discussion, in August of 2008.
Well I have no objection to a merely cosmetic move. But I would have thought that the single word should apply to the more pertinent subject, which IMHO is the city. It boils down to: what proportions of people typing in a search for Limerick are looking for the city or the verse-type? The single word should apply to the larger proportion of researchers. Nick Michael (talk) 21:49, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
The standard is, "much more used than any other topic covered in Wikipedia to which the same word(s) may also refer". I don't think the city meets that definition, but, then, the poetry probably doesn't either. Perhaps the dab page is the solution. --Born2cycle (talk) 22:15, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Looked at the page stats and you are quite right: Limerick (poetry) has twice as much traffic as the City (does this say anything about Wikipedia readers?). A new grouse though: I see there is an article Limerick (song). Wonder if this should be incorporated in the poetry article (preferably without the extended and unnecessary example, which can only serve to denigrate er, serious Wikipedians). As far as I know (which isn't very), such football-stadium/pub songs are not known as Limericks, although the verse form (but not the chorus) is identical. Oh dear, I don't know why I waste my time on this stuff... Nick Michael (talk) 08:03, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
And you failed at that, good job! Now what?? 89.101.226.42 (talk) 00:18, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I think you've misunderstood how this works. I requested the move based on the comments here. There were a variety of views, and no consensus. The decision was not to move. That's how it works. Welcome to the world of community editing. Mooncow (talk) 16:06, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Improved?
A refimprove tag was added in August 2008. Since then, a number of references have been added, and a quantity of unsourced material removed. The article looks pretty well referenced to me, with substantive statements carrying footnote references, and several general references and "see alsos". Unless folk disagree I'd propose removing the refimprove at this point. Mooncow (talk) 01:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm in favor. DavidOaks (talk) 01:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Kill it. Feel free to kill tags whenever you feel it's appropriate - that's how wikipedia works; editors do stuff and other editors react. And after all, nobody feels a long discussion is needed to slap a big honkin' tag down, so a long discussion isn't need to remove them. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 21:45, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Weird limerick from SpongeBob
here is a limerick i think i once heard on SpongeBob (it's one of the clean ones that's funny):
There once was a man from Peru
Who dreamt he was eating his shoe
He woke with a fright
In the middle of night
And discovered his dream had come true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.245.4.237 (talk) 21:19, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Quintain (poetry) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
I've posted this notice here as it may be of interest to editors of this article because, according to Quintain (poetry), limerick is a type of quintain. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 17:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Foot
I've marked this as dubious:
The defining "foot" of a limerick's meter is usually the anapaest, (ta-ta-TUM), but limericks can also be considered amphibrachic (ta-TUM-ta).
Actually, the rhythm doesn't always divide into feet so easily. For example, the limerick given:
There was a young rustic named Mallory,
ta-TUM-ta-ta-TUM-ta-ta-TUM-ta-ta
Is this three amphibrachs followed by a short, or three dactyls preceded by a short?
Should we put the dirty form of the "Old Man from Nantucket" limerick? Tuf-Kat 00:54, Mar 23, 2004 (UTC)
No, ít's non-functioal. We already have Nantucked and ribald themes. Aliter 15:54, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
I think it should be included, since it's one of the best-known limericks by far.
I've deleted the well known and often repeated Limerick, but not because I'm a hopeless American prude. In fact, whenever I want to recall the structure of a Limerick, "Old Man from Nantucket" is the one I recall. However, I'm a school teacher who really likes to refer his students to wikipedia and while I don't mind them occasionally finding adult content, the forces that be are deathly afraid of it. Its my fear that unneccessary profanity will add to a list of reasons our school's administrators will use to put wikipedia on the blocked list. That's not good for anyone.
Besides, most of the people who visit the Limerick page already know what Nantucket rhymes with.Rookery1 13:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)rookery1
No, I believe it *should* be in there. Perhaps disguised behind a link? It really is the *ONE* limerick nearly everyone 1. knows, and 2. can remember. Seriously. LOL..... Tgm1024 (talk) 00:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Five years 10 months between sequential comments in a Talk page thread - I wonder what the record is? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 01:44, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
On elements of the limerick
Let's look at an example:
German:
Nach Genuss von erheblichem Rume,
Bracht ein Limerick-Dichter von Ruhme
Durch die Reim' die-er-hat,
Und der Leut', die gelacht,
Seine Vers' auf die Absolutume!
English:
After drinking a good bit of rum,
A limerick poet, quite of some
Well known bit of initiative,
Got the hum'rous incentative
To leave any other poets glum!
(The English version may be weak, but that's one important factor of translation - always difficult to reproduce the climax!)
These are limericks, what Wikipedia and G. B. Shaw may call obscene, transgressive verse, but which are actually manipulations of the language they're versed in -- the epitome of irreverence.
They're manipulative of the language and make fun of themselves simultaneously - quite a bit of their charm:
When a lim'rick is crafted exactily
As a poet can wield his word-factory
The result may be worse
Than an amateur's verse
-- though eschewing an in-double-dactily!
Their language transgression need not be in the first or the last lines (as often stated); the politics referenced are often quite local: let's go to the border between the "Homelands" and the "Scots" -
If there's ever a popular singer,
From the border - a Eurostar winger,
And the Brits should proclaim,
That it's Carlisle, for fame,
Then the Armstrongs'd shout: "No, it's Glenzier!"
This brings up two important elements: the Celtic pronunciation injected and the age-old conflict. The language 'misuse' already begins with the world "Carlisle" - a back-reference before the last line. But the latter requires reading by those in the know, which gives them the chance to "score" by clarifying the rhyme. On the other hand, the limerick's structure itself attains a teaching function by forcing the rhyme, so it's not necessarily indigenous.
Let's look at the american side of the ocean:
Old Jim Bowie lay down with his wife,
And she whispered him thoughts for the knife -
An additional edge,
Backed with bronze as a ledge,
Kept that scrapper alive all her life.
This collects all the elements of a limerick: historicism, characterization, demystification, practicality, colloquialism, and surprise are all elements of the limerick - and in this one defy translation of any kind because of the most important characteristic: they're proprietary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.199.179 (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Amphibrachs not dubious
"...but limericks can also be considered amphibrachic (ta-TUM-ta)[dubious – discuss]."
There WAS a | young MAN of | NanTUCKet
What's to discuss?
What's more dubious is that the last foot has three syllables at all:
Would you expect a limerick in an international standard?
When writing a specialization, be careful about its location; or to make it compile will be such a trial as to kindle its self-immolation.
— International Standard for Programming Language C++, ISO/IEC 14882:2011, § 14.7.3/7
Surprisingly, this is a normative part of the standard! Perhaps this should be included in the article? — DragonLord (talk/contribs) 00:38, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
there should be a section on meta-limericks, that is, limericks about limericks
meter isn't right on this one, but:
There was an old Limerick with the flu,
Who lived with his zebra and gnu.
And here's a verse
even worse than the first;
He thought he was a haiku.
This one is meta in the sense that it's a template limerick (73.53.44.165 (talk) 03:16, 17 February 2014 (UTC)):
There once was an entity E
That satisfied predicate P.
It performed action A
In a specified way,
Resulting in circumstance C.
Analysis of Gilbert example
In respect to the Gilbert example is it worth mentioning that an upper-class affectation at the time pronounced "doesn't" as "don't" (so that lines 3 and 4 nearly rhyme), and that while 1, 2, and 5 do not rhyme all end with a hymenopteran? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.94.110.44 (talk) 23:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Alternatively, to maintain the limerick's meter: "The poor little bastard was dead." 142.177.218.134 (talk) 23:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Which would, however, completely kill the joke. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 11:02, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Dave Abercrombie
I just removed quite a lot of verbiage from the "Form" section concerning the opinions of David Abercrombie. They seemed to me excessive and giving undo weight to one man's description. But others may disagree, so here's what I cut:
The following limerick is an example:[not in citation given]
The limerick’s an art form complex
Whose contents run chiefly to sex;
It’s famous for virgins
And masculine urgin’s
And vulgar erotic effects.
In the first line of this limerick, there are three unstressed syllables between the first and second stresses, two between the second and third, but only one unstressed syllable before the first stress. There may or may not be an unstressed syllable (or, rarely, two) after the final stress of the line. In the example above there are unstressed syllables at the end of lines three and four but not at the end of the remaining lines. Moreover, it is intrinsic to the limerick that there be a silent stress at the end of lines one, two, and five. A silent stress occurs when the reader undergoes the physiological changes associated with a stress but without any sound. To understand this, imagine that a drum is struck each time there is a stress. Then, in English verse, the drum beats would be equally spaced, regardless of the number of unstressed syllables that separate them. However, in reading a limerick, after the third beat of the first line, the next beat falls at the end of the line, not on the first stress of the second line. Thus, it is perhaps better to think of the limerick as having four stresses (the final one silent) in lines one, two, and five – and two stresses, of course, in lines three and four. Sometimes, the ending phrase can rhyme:
Sadly, Jack's class named math
Isn't as easy as taking a bath
Because he has to sit next to
A person who rejects you
If you're a boy like you're a type of giraffe.
(end of cut portion) - DavidWBrooks (talk) 19:37, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Other languages?
I know of an old Latin limerick. And I've seen a modern German one. Is the limerick form found widely across Europe? Other languages? Pete unseth (talk) 18:21, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
Haptic poetry example
The example of haptic poetry is interesting, but there is no explanation as to why it is a Limerick. Indeed there only seems to be one reference to the image on Google, in Polish ( https://poezja.org/utwor/161911-amstaffka-yoko-ze-zgierza/ ) with no mention of Limerick. Surely there should be done clarification, reference or it should be deleted.
I agree with previous post: clarify or reference it. Or delete it. The objects in the picture do NOT reflet the length of limerick lines. Relevance to this article?? Pete unseth (talk) 18:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
Why Anespsts? + age
Why consider the limerick anapestic? Three lines are dactyls with additional unstressed feet at the beginning and end. The additional unstressed feet don't count. Those three lines could also be seen as ambhibrachs.
Also, they are an ancient form. Queen Elizabeth 1 wrote an essay on morality in this form, though I can't find it in the Web. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indigocat (talk • contribs) 23:22, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Anapaests?
The Limerick ain't anapaestic
If that's what you think then you best stick
To prosaic matters
With free-versing chatters
It's amphibrachs keeping things zest-ic
There Limerick like poems in other meters (and the first example of course slips from the "true" form by finishing each line with an extra down beat, dropping the "al" from each of the longer lines worsens the English but improves the form!)
di DUM di / di DUM di / di DUM [di]
di DUM di / di DUM di / di DUM [di]
di DUM di / di DUM [di]
di DUM di / di DUM [di]
di DUM di / di DUM di / di DUM [di]
or to go back to Lear
there WAS an old MAN with a BEARD
who SAID it is JUST as i FEARED
two OWLS and a HEN
three LARKS and a WREN
have ALL built their NESTS in my BEARD
using anapaests would stress an, with, it, as, and, and, built and finally in.
The first two syllables are always weak then strong, and the classic example (There ONCE was a MAN from NanTUCKet) is unambiguously amphibrachic. I've edited the article to note that some forms are amphibrachic, while others are one syllable short of both amphibrachs and anapaests, depending whether one thinks a weak syllable is missing from the start or end of the line.
The article (current version) contains the sentence: "The third and fourth lines are usually anapaestic." suggesting that line 3 and 4 consist of 6 syllables. There are examples of it, but I think that another (imho more important) form should not be left out, which is that line 3 and 4 contain a iamb followed by anapaest. This form allows the limerick to be sung!
I would like to insert a new section after section 3. It would introduce the website OEDILF.com (The Omnificent English Dictionary In Limerick Form).
I suggest the following text. Is this OK?
The website OEDILF.com (The Omnificent English Dictionary In Limerick Form) has
the goal of writing at least one limerick for each meaning of each and every
word in the English language. Started in May 2004, as of June 2021 it has
attracted over 2,200 writers, who have written over 110,000 approved limericks. The
estimated completion date is 2063.
As of June 2021, only submissions based on words beginning with the letters Aa-
through Ha- are being accepted. Each limerick is "workshopped" to ensure that it conforms
to the definition of limerick in terms of meter and rhyme. Five experienced limerick
writers must approve it. New limerick authors are encouraged to join in the fun.
@Inox-art: Hi. Earlier, I proposed to add to Limerick (poetry) a small section about the website oedilf.com. Getting no response, I inserted the section. You deleted it. I respectfully ask you to explain why you did that. And, if you would accept the section with modifications, let me know what they should be. Here is my
reason for adding it.
No other limerick resource has so many limericks as oedilf.com. It has over 110,000 at the moment, with more being added every day. It is a living, growing resource. An encyclopedic page on limericks that does not a
mention oedilf.com in a way that all readers will see it is, imho, simply incomplete.
I know that OEDILF is given in the External links, along with 6 others. But that does not make it clear just what OEDILF is and how massive and important it is as a source of limericks.
DavidGries (talk) 18:29, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
I do not support the reinstatement of the section in question. This article is about the limerick as such. Since The Omnificent English Dictionary in Limerick Form already has a WP article of its own, it is appropriate that reference to the OEDILF here remain as an external link. -- Jmc (talk) 20:15, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
@DavidGries: Hi. It's my understanding that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a place to blatantly promote one's interests and opinions. Inox-art (talk) 16:51, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Dirty
Given that the article stresses the importance of dirtiness, or 'transgressing taboos', in limericks, it stands to reason that some should be included here.
Songs with Limericks for Verses (and Maybe Also Choruses)
Would it be relevant to mention songs with limericks at least for verses? I know of We Three Kings and The Jungle Book songs Colonel Hathi’s March and the reprise. Cbsteffen (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
