Talk:List of Kanon episodes

References to Suzumiya Haruhi, really?

In the second episode there are a number of references to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. The first is when Kaori comments on Yūichi's narration, referring to Kyon's narration. The second is when Yūichi says, "I'd like to see a non-normal introduction," referring to Haruhi's bizzare highschool introduction. Kyon and Yūichi are both voiced by Tomokazu Sugita.

I deleted this paragraph because those two scenes are actually from Kanon game, which is the original work that came out in 1999. It certainly means that those two scenes are not refering to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya or whatever. I don't think Kyoto Animation casted Tomokazu just because he acted Kyon. --Paran pi 10:10, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Having only watched the anime and never played the game, I'd thought it was more than a really big coincidence as you point out. Magus Melchior 23:09, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Yūichi and Kyon also sit in the same place in class? I find it incredibly hard to believe it is a coincidence. But whatever. - Anon fan

Many many many anime/manga/video games in the past have given that seat to the main character. It's all over the place, so it's nothing special to just Haruhi or Kanon.--(十八|talk) 04:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It could be argued that Suzumiya Haruhi is referencing Kanon and not the other way around. I don't think it is provable. --Squilibob 06:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

To say that Nagaru Tanigawa was influenced by Kanon when writing the first volume is way out there; it's just an odd coincidence.--(十八|talk) 07:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, according to the wikipedia entry for Kyoto Animation, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was worked on right before the 2006 version of Kanon. Also, I found the episode in question at Google Video, and the lines are indeed verifiable. 66.175.166.96 (talk) 22:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Read the first line of this discussion; it's just a coincidence.--十八 23:10, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

The strength of Paran pi's reasoning would depend on whether or not that dialogue actually exists in the visual novel. (If the dialogue does indeed exist in the visual novel, please disregard this post.) Although I have not played the visual novel, I have watched The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, as well as the 2002 version of Kanon by Toei Animation. And from that, I can verify that the 2002 version of Kanon does not have those references that the 2006 version does. Which leads me to speculate that Kyoto Animation may have taken liberty with the Kanon title when remaking it to include references to its other works. Kyoto Animation's Lucky Star (which I have also watched), for instance, blatantly references The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. Now to clarify, I am fine with that paragraph being excluded if the reason was that this is really just trivia and is not relevant to the article. As it stands now, the paragraph is excluded, and I will not contest the matter. 66.175.166.96 (talk) 13:04, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as how the paragraph was originally in a Trivia section that has since been removed, this discussion has become a non-issue (at least from my viewpoint). I apologize for taking up your time, Juhachi. 66.175.166.96 (talk) 13:16, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Separate articles for each episode

Would anybody be interested in doing this? I myself am willing to do a few episodes. 220.235.106.83 05:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

What you are suggesting is quite the momumental task. Saying that you'd only be willing to do a few episodes when there are 38 episodes in total doesn't make sense. If you were to do it for the 2006 version, you'd also have to do it for the 2002 series and 2003 OVA to be consistent, and then there's the thing about creating a navigation template, an infobox template, and not to mention another 38 articles added to the Kanon series on Wikipedia. I would have to say that if anyone was going to be able to do it, I'd probably be a good choice, but right now I am unwilling (and simply don't have the time) to do something of this scale. Perhaps in the summer when I have more time and can donate more time to something like this.

All I'm saying is that if you are willing to get into a project of this size, you should also be willing to see it to its completion.--十八 06:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, as a series can occasionally do to me, I reached the end and immediately wanted to start watching it again from the beginning. If this takes me I could would be interested in contributing a little now that the final episode has aired. J-Kama-Ka-C 00:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

As as I said to the anon above, you cannot contribute a "little" to a project of this size. If you do, then the articles will just get deteled some day down the road. The same thing happened to Air last summer when a user attempted to start individual episode guides but only got halfway through and quit; the articles were later deleted. So I'm telling you, if you are not willing to do all 38 episodes, forget about it right now.--十八 04:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The RahXephon media page was a featured list, however the episode summary pages linked off this are little more than those same two line synopses, perhaps they should all go. My point is they're not going to develop as true pages unless there's a starting point like their current state. Doing the same thing for Kanon is a minor job, which can then be built upon by the community, rather than whatever happened to Air. This "suggestion/talk:" seems to be the best way to get the ball rolling if this is to ever properly happen.

Not to be stepping on toes, but I feel it's not a case of, improve one episode description: must therefore improve all the episodes, linked off that page, included those of a different show that aired 5 years ago. If that was so, then why does the logic stop there? why not insist that person complete all of "Full Metal Panic! Second Raid" because they had the same production studio as Kanon (2006) - oh but then they'd have to complete the FMP original series too, suddenly we've splashed out across three different animation studios. I know I'm being absurd, sorry. J-Kama-Ka-C 18:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Look, all I'm saying is to not make the same mistake with what happened with Air. That anime was only 15 episodes in length (13 main, plus 2 of Air in Summer; this one is 38! If that one couldn't even get halfway done, how do you even possibly think Kanon's episodes guides would be any better?! And I don't think I'm being absurd to ask for all 38 episodes to be given pages if you were going to do it. It would be the consistent thing to do, and if you're putting more focus on the new anime just because it's newer, then why even bother. It wouldn't make sense to only do it for Kanon 2006; you have to think of how it would look for Wikipedia only to focus on the newer stuff.--十八 21:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I do agree, Air was a half season long compared to K'06, and then there's the 2002 run, so it will be quite a task to start, but regards a focus on newer stuff, it was always my belief that notable information gets articles. It's much easier for new stuff to be currently notable. However I am a sucker for consistency when it all boils down, so I think you've got me there J-Kama-Ka-C 10:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Sigh While I was technically against the creation of these pages, I can only give in at this point and try to improve the quality of the 38 news pages. I have already added plot descriptions to the first 13 episodes of the 2006 anime and plan to finish them up in the next couple days. I have not seen any of the 2002 version or the 2003 OVA yet, but I will in late June, so if no one adds in the plot summaries for those episodes by then, I will end up doing all of them, because I am more than willing to follow through with the creation of these pages, despite only creating the Kanon Kazahana page myself.--十八 01:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

You could always just vandalise the pages instead... - but on that silly note, I'm trying to justify moving this old discussion out of the way. My intention was to get on with the actual articles: rather than letting this drift from "will we/won't we" into "we should/we shouldn't have" regarding the new pages J-Kama-Ka-C (off-IP) 09:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If you want to start a new discussion, then start a new header. The fact that you moved this discussion out of main space into user space made no sense and I was just so shocked at the time that you went ahead and created the episode pages (and the fact that I had to clean up every single one of the them) that it did not occur to me at the time how wrong a move that was on your part, which is why I moved it back. As for the "we should/we shoudn't have" discussion, I say after doing 13 summaries of the remake, I'm well on my way on finsihing up the remake episode articles in the next few days (at least by the end of this week). I would enjoy help of course, and as I said, I have not seen the 2002 anime or 2003 OVA yet, so if any one wants to jump on those then by all means.--十八 10:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, my mistake. This stuff is supposed to go into archive when the page is tired of it, but I guess there is no real hurry in doing that... Unless all articles must be completed within a week to prevent the end of the world.

You obviously enjoy this, and I don't want to be insulting in offering to fix grammar or other minor cop outs, but at the current rate you may beat me on K'06 before I get another weekend free. Regardless, thank you for cleaning the kana (kanji?) and the other minor fixes on the individual articles. I have no intention of installing the character set and my back-writing it out of the HTML didn't work. J-Kama-Ka-C 16:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If you are going to edit anime/manga pages, I would highly recommend you get the East-Asian character sets installed; it's easy as long as you have a windows. The files are already on your computer, you just have to tell your computer to recognize them. This would have prevented me having to include all of the kanji/kana in the articles as it was a major pain. And I would ask you or anyone to go through the summaries I am including looking for spelling and grammar mistakes as I am writing these summaries very quickly and if I don't catch a mistake, it will go unnoticed until another editor sees it.

And as to if I enjoy it or not...it's half and half. I enjoy doing the work, I suppose, but having to do so much in so little time is stressful for me. Sure, I don't have to go at such an accelerated pace, but I want to get as much of them done as quick as I can so there won't be any discussions on having these articles deleted, which is exactly what happened to the Air episode articles as I stated above and was one of the main reasons why I did not want to go through with this endevor right now, but I guess as it is, I don't have a choice. In time, I will also work on the List of Kanon episodes page and try to get it up to a Featured List, though that won't be happening until all the 38 episode articles are dealt with and expanded with summaries. That'll probably happen sometime in July at the latest if I end up having to do all of them. I stand by my claim that I was probably the best choice to take on this challenge as I not only have the drive, but the determination to see it carried out to completion; I'm just that in love with the Kanon series.--十八 00:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The "Classical Music X" of trivia

Just a note on sifting of trivia from this list page to the relevant articles. What is anyone's opinion on the "type of classical music" refered to within each of the episode titles - currently they are internally linked only in the corner of the individual episode pages. I assume this is more than enough, while leaving the rest of the trivia (such as a general note about of this) on the list page. Is the best way to go? J-Kama-Ka-C (off-IP) 09:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with this move as it seems the most practical.--十八 10:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Another musical note

More trivia on episode titles I had forgot to mention, I wanted to add that the episode titles of the 2002 series are all named for tracks on the game's soundtrack. I don't suppose the English translations on the music of the Kanon is any more official than this page? I ask because while the romaji is identical, the English is occasionally differently interpreted. The exceptions are episodes 3 and 4, while the titles are on similar theme to some of the music tracks I can't see a direct match like the other 11 episodes. J-Kama-Ka-C 21:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

While I did notice this, I think you're miscouting the ones that were named after the songs from the game. This would encompass not only 3 and 4, but also 12. But yes, all the other ones are song tracks from the original OST. As for the "official" translations, the only one is "The Fox and the Grapes"; all the others have multiple translations. You can go ahead and add the note if you wish.--十八 00:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

That's why I queried for official translations: as mentioned I'm not display kanji by default, but the romaji for episode 12 (Yume no Ato) definitely matches tracks on the OST. Granted they translate into three different titles between them (Mark/Remnants/Reamins of a dream), but I'm not going to worry if there's been no official version. Will see to adding this in myself tomrrow J-Kama-Ka-C 00:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, sorry about that; at first I thought episode 12 was one of them, but I found the song when I searched for the kanji. It was episode 7 I was talking about; there is no song on the original OST called Butōkai.--十八 03:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes you're quite right, I was looking at the soundtracks released after the 2002 anime. Still, I have updated the article to include a mention of those that do J-Kama-Ka-C 19:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Between late 2006 and early 2007

It might just be personal bias, but I think that it reads smoother when stated as "In (or during) 2006". We already have the dates it aired in the same sentence, and as a title over it's subsection. So I'm not trying to deny they did some of the production work in 2007, but by that card, obtaining part of the licence back when Air was so successful, then surely they did some work on the Kanon project between '04 and '06 as well? I'm not going to edit things back; there's nothing factually wrong here, just a little stale to read. J-Kama-Ka-C 16:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh come on, I do not mean when they were making the anime. All I want to acknolege is that about half the entire series was aired in 2007. If it were only a few episode, I may let it slid, but not when it's half the series. Saying that it is "during 2006" at the beginning of the sentence and then saying that some of it aired in 2007 is misleading and contridictory; trying to be consistent with the information here.--十八 20:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Removing individual episodes

I personally feel terrible about doing this due to all the work I put into them, but then again I had no real idea of the guidelines when I was filling the second anime series' episodes with plot summaries. Per WP:EPISODE, I am going to redirect all of the episode articles to this page due to the fact that their creation violates the third point on that page: Once there's enough verifiable information from secondary sources about individual episodes, create separate articles for them. The episodes themselves are primary sources, but there are no secondary sources for any of the episodes, thus they fail inclusion per WP:EPISODE and I am removing them.--十八 11:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

It is only a guideline and does seem to be constantly debated. Put another way, you don't need to look very far to find other examples of useful episode listings, but I'm not going to argue this. I have turned the classic music links back on in the titles J-Kama-Ka-C 18:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Kanon 2002 airdates

The main article's infobox and the Japanese wiki says the anime ran from January 30, 2002 to March 27, 2002, but according to this article, the airdates would be from January 30, 2002 to April 24, 2002. I was looking for airdates for a different series when I found this site which shows that it did finish on March 27. Since anyone can edit Anime News Network, it doesn't always have the right information and I would only use it as a source as a last resort. If the site I linked is wrong, please change the infobox on the main article. Rezumop (talk) 00:49, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Nice catch; I had no idea that they aired multiple episodes on the same day. Also, the Japanese wiki has it listed as airing between Jan. 30 and March 27 at 26:25 - 26:55, which corresponds to Jan. 31 and March 28 at 2:25 - 2:55; don't ask me why they have this weird way of writing the dates and times, but that's the official time frame when converting to standard date/time formatting.--十八 01:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Hm...but what's the point of referencing ANN and the other sites if the text of the article itself disagrees? I understand that it aired late at night, and thus technically the next day, but the apparent inconsistency between the article and the references is problematic and confusing. I edited the dates so that they would match the references, but if that's no good, I think a note about the time issue should be written into the lead. Links to alternate episode listings with more appropriate dates would also suffice.--Tally Solleni (talk) 00:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I changed it back for factual consistency. The first ref used for the air dates is this website which, in the second section, substantiates that it first aired early January 31, 2002. I guess we could nix the ANN listing if we must.--十八 00:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

No, my main point is that there should be something along the lines of "it aired after midnight, so the premier date was etc." in the lead. Would this be acceptable?--Tally Solleni (talk) 00:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah sure, that seems fine.--十八 00:30, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

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