Talk:List of NXT Tag Team Champions

Dain and Strong

I removed Strong and Dain from the list of champions. Looking their profiles in WWE.com, looks like WWE doesn't recognized them as champions (Adam Cole is listed as Champion). They were substitutes in some matches, but doesn't look like the freebird rule, more like Shelley and Storm defending the TNA Tag Team Titles.--HHH Pedrigree (talk) 19:34, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

I agree. Somebody had re-added Strong, so I removed it. I also added a mention of Dain defending the title, but not being recognized as champion. I also made the situation with Undisputed Era clearer, particularly that Cole was not originally co-champion. I added notes for users to not re-add Dain or Strong. --Hyliad (talk), 16:15, 12 April 2018 (CEST)

I disagree that Killian Dain should not recognized as an NXT Tag Team Champion, and I think this should be reverted to include Dain. The source you are using is the WWE.com profile page for Killian Dain. The accomplishment/stats section of WWE.com profile pages are not always complete. I think you are putting too much weight on these profile pages. The NXT Tag Team Championship history lists "Sanity" as the tag team champions, not just Young and Wolfe. During Sanity's reign as champions, there was a significant change on WWE.com after Killian Dain started defending the championships. After Young and Wolfe won the titles, WWE uploaded a photo of Young and Wolfe with the titles in its champions section. Later, WWE uploaded a different photo which included Young, Wolfe, and Dain. The addition of Dain to the champions photo is similar to when WWE.com included Woods, Big E, and Kingstom to their championship photo and when Harper, Orton, and Wyatt where all included in their tag team championship photo. Here are links to the original original championship photo for Sanity on WWE.com and the updated championship photo which includes Dain:

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/wwe_1_1_460/public/all/2017/08/Young_Wolfe_Protitle--b5929e02c7a91b5690295dc24c6ae90a.png http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/wwe_1_1_460/public/all/2017/11/sanity_Final--d6a2f2d2484312715a1d2b266c98689c.png

Killian Dain performed in the match where Sanity lost the championships to Fish and O'Reilly. If Dain was not recognized as an NXT Tag Team Champion, then the championships would not have been on the line. The fact that this was a championship match shows that Dain was recognized as one of the champions. Why would they change the championship photo from Young and Wolfe to Young, Wolfe, and Dain?

There are other photos from WWE.com which suggest that Dain is to be considered part of the championship team. WWE.com hosts photo sections for the championships. The championship photo for Sanity features Killian Dain as well as Young and Wolfe.

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/gallery_img_l/public/all/2018/02/012_SANITY_08192017dog_0090--a3a6e2317688db6c143b37edcc8b009b.jpg Grammarian10 (talk) 19:52, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

The WWE.com profiles are fine. Dain isn't recognized as champion since his WWE.com profile doesn't reflect it. The photo gallery is very weak, by that logic, Nikki Cross is also a former champion. As you said, all of these is a "suggestion", not a fact. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 08:58, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

I think the issue seems to be that the reports from this weeks taping gives him a piece of the title, but until that airs the profile wont be updated. Even if he is, to include him in the combined reigns table as holding it all those days is definitely WP:OR at this point, since he was not even in the group until this past week. - Galatz^Talk 13:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

I would wait until next week, but looks like Strong it's an official champion. However, I'm against Dain. The arguments I readed (he appears in the picture, he had the title in his hands) are pretty weak and open to interpretation, suggestions. Dain's profile said he has no titles in NXT. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:03, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Should we ask for the page to be protected ? People keep changing it to add Dain and/or Strong despite the issue being currently debated. Since it's unclear, I would suggest refraining from adding Dain or Strong until there is an actual consensus, especially since the situation regarding Strong should get clearer as new NXT episodes come by. --Hyliad (talk) 14:32, 15 April 2018 (CEST)

I'm not so sure that these profile pages are good enough as a basis for such decisions. However - regardless of how we consider Dain or Strong (and WP should be consistent), what we cannot have is saying somebody is not recognized as a champion but defended via the freebird rule. The freebird rule actually says that somebody who was not part of the title win still is part of the championship team, hence fully champion and therefore can also defend it. Note that being a champion under the freebird rule is not the only way to be part of a defense as there have been simple replacements in title matches as well. Str1977 ^(talk) 05:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, are the official WWE profiles. Adam Cole includes his reign as NXT NA and Tag Team champion, so looks like it's updated. Sadly, the title history is very ambiguous. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:17, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

About the Freebird Rule, I see something similar with ROH World Trios Championship. The champions were The Hung Bucks, but any member of the bullet club could defend the titles. However, these members weren't considered champions. I don't know, we can say "Dain defended the title, but it's not a champion" a la LayCool. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

There have been other instances where WWE doesn't recognize a change but we do (Ric Flair and Bob Backlund for instance). But there are also times where someone else defends the championship. I remember a time in WCW where someone didnt want to wrestle twice so someone else defended the TV title for him, cannot remember who or when. - Galatz^Talk 14:56, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Re: "the official WWE profiles": WWE is not infallible nor are these profiles necessarily complete. Note that the profiles do not say "X is not considered a tag team champion" - you are deducing from an absence of "X is a tag team champion" statement but such an absence might have to reasons. However, I actually agree that if there is no other sourced statement that X is a tag team champion, the absence in these profiles has weight.

Re: the Freebird Rule. If that is so in ROH, then it is a variation of the Freebird Rule. A bit pointless because there have always been replacements in title defenses (The examples that always comes to my mind is how the Hollywood Blonds lost their WCW tag team titles to Arn Anderson & Paul Roma. Another one is the Triple Header where British Bulldog subbed for Owen Hart). That ROH variation merely dispenses the stable from feigning an injury. Str1977 ^(talk) 17:57, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

The way one promotion handles champions can't really be used on another. - Galatz^Talk 18:00, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

I think the Freebird Rule can authorize a defense from somebody who is not champion. Quite frankly, bookers will just do whatever suits them since the whole Freebird Rule thing is extremely vague, so I don't know how much we can base an argument on precedent. After all Michelle McCool defended Layla's WWE Women's Championship back in 2010 under the Freebird Rule, but the title's history clearly shows she was never recognized as champion. So it's really all just about what we know in this case. I agree that WWE profiles are not the best source, but there is not really any other reliable source that can support a claim of being or not being champion, is there ? I guess basing ourselves on the way Dain was announced (same for Strong when new NXT episodes air) could be a way, and I believe Dain WAS announced as champion. But even that is a debatable basis. Also, to answer to what Galatz said a little earlier ("I think the issue seems to be that the reports from this weeks taping gives him a piece of the title, but until that airs the profile wont be updated. Even if he is, to include him in the combined reigns table as holding it all those days is definitely WP:OR at this point, since he was not even in the group until this past week"), that is also debatable. Cole was not champion until Takeover: New Orleans, but WWE retroactively recognizes him as champion since this is officially a single uninterrupted reign. It is already specified in the Notes part of the title history, but what could be done (for Cole and possibly Strong if he does end up being co-champion) would be for the Combined Reigns section to give all current champions the same "combined days recognized by WWE", but have the actual combined days start from Takeover for Cole, and possibly from whatever NXT episode he becomes co-champion for Strong. ----Hyliad (d), April 18, 2018, 00:54 (CEST)

Alright, apparently people are not interested in discussing the issue anymore. Here's the update: Roderick is recognized officially as champion on his WWE page, so that's official, but Cole's page also stated "he spelled an injured Fish to help O'Reilly defend The Undisputed ERA's NXT Tag Team Titles, becoming the first-ever double champion in the history of NXT", indicating that he is, as well, champion. Or at least, he was during Takeover New Orleans. I'll do the modifications, including making a difference between "combined days" and "days recognized by WWE" for both Strong and Cole, since WWE considers them champions since Fish and O'Reilly won, but clearly it is not truly the case. There is some talk that Cole was recognized as co-champion, but only for NXT TakeOver and was then replaced by Strong. It's definitely still a complicated situation. As for Dain, it really seems he was never champion. If you have an issue with any of those changes, feel free to debate them here some more.--Hyliad (d), April 30, 2018, 22:38 (CEST)

My only thought is that Cole should currently be listed as zero recognized by WWE but we recognize X days (from TakeOver until NXT taping) while strong only since the tapings as official, but recognized be the entire time. - Galatz^Talk 21:05, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Cole is not recognized by WWE. They removed him from the title pic and removed it from his stats section; they however forgot to remove it from his bio where it said he is the first ever double champ. But if we count Inoki, Backlund and others as unrecognized reigns, Cole is unrecognized too. We can't have both, just because how the Freebird rule usually works. It's WWE and their rules are more important than the Freebird rule. We should add a note that Cole once was recognized, but isn't anymore. But no way he currently is considered Tag Champ. Why else would WWE remove the stuff about him being champ?WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 17:22, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

That's a good point from both Galatz and WrestlingLegendsAS. I'll credit only those three as champions, until another consensus is possibly reached. --Hyliad (d), May 1, 2018, 20:05 (CEST)

Thanks, I think the way it is now is how I envisioned it. - Galatz^Talk 18:32, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

We should remove Adam Cole from "combined reigns". We don't include Inoki's reign or Flair's unrecognized US title reign either, so why make an exception for Cole? If he is in "combined reigns", his reign would be recognized. But it isn't. The note in the title reign description is enough.WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 20:56, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Looking at List of WCW World Heavyweight Champions we list Flair as having 8 with a note. Seems consistent to me. - Galatz^Talk 23:16, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

It supports my point. His one WCW title reign is marked as unrecognized and therefore does NOT appear in combined reigns. Cole's reign is marked as unrecognized but DOES appear in combined reigns. Not consistent. So I think we should remove Cole from combined reigns and just keep him as a note in the Undisputed Era title reign description.WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 00:07, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

You might want to look again. Flair only has 7 recognized reigns. Making the listing of 8 consistent with here - Galatz^Talk 00:21, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry. But then it is inconsistent with unrecognized reigns like Inoki's, which is in combined reigns but it is grey (for unrecognized). We should do that for Cole. Then it would really be consistent.WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 00:43, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Strong in Combined Reigns by wrestler

Strong is put down as having a 150+ day reign when his time with the title should start at when he joined TUE, on the 7th of April, putting him at 21+ days with the title. It doesn't make sense to give him time with the belt he never actually had. AM Woody (talk) 21:32, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Is Adam Cole a former Tag Team Champ?

For months we did not recognize him as such. What changed our mind now? Mauro calling him a Triple Crown Champ?WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 17:12, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Our mind hasn't changed, WWE mind's did. Now, they recognized Cole's reign. [1] --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 19:18, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

He has always been listed here - Galatz גאליץ^{שיחה Talk} 12:32, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

No. At some point he was just listed as an unofficial champ.WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 16:06, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes. He was listed as unnoficial since WWE didn't recognized him. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 19:39, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Imperium

Does their championship start date truly correspond to the day the NXT episode aired? I thought WWE programs were taped in batches well in advance of their air dates right now, so is it certain their run began on 13 May? The title changes occurring at WrestleMania 36 had the date uncertainty be reflected in their articles so unless this one is different shouldn't it as well? Anonymous Contributor 012786 (talk) 09:23, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Channing Lorenzo

I just happened to find out that Channing "Stacks" Lorenzo's real name is Mitchell LaValley. If anyone wanted to start a wiki on him, that would be a place to start. Wikivisitor2022 (talk) 03:18, 31 July 2023 (UTC)