Talk:List of Rosenwald schools

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Hamilton High School (Scottdale, Georgia)[edit]

This school should be added to the list. See Draft:Hamilton High School (Scottdale, Georgia). FloridaArmy (talk) 20:35, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, your draft has sources proving existence and providing some detail. Please do add it as an item, even if it is currently a redlink item. --Doncram (talk) 02:02, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tables aren't my strong point unfortunately. Like tools. I am primitive. FloridaArmy (talk) 02:09, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List question[edit]

Why does this list only include "notable" (whatever that means) Rosenwald schools? Why not include all of them? Isn't that the point of a list? The notable ones should be linked so people can access their separate articles. FloridaArmy (talk) 22:57, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, good, thanks for opening here. I just came from my Talk page where I was sort of commenting about this, and it should be here instead.

Certainly the list-article should include all the Wikipedia-notable ones, which means the ones proven to be individually notable by their having separate Wikipedia articles and meeting wp:GNG or whatever standards. I think this started as a list of all the NRHP-listed ones, which certainly are each Wikipedia-notable. I think that user:Pubdog did a lot more than I did; i do recall he developed way more individual articles separately at least. It was a way to start. It was definitely not anyone's intention that the list should be limited to NRHP-listed ones.

I dunno about making a list of all 5,000 of these. Some of them were very tiny, temporary, and having no record about them. I am not a huge fan of having just a bare list of school and/or town names, with no substantial information about them, which could render the list-article unwieldy and unattractive/unreadable. You must have some different sources, could you share about what you have?

FYI, all of the Carnegie libraries are in fact listed (i think with the U.S. ones broken out by state), but their buildings were far more substantial and there exists a lot of documentation about all of them, including original correspondence from women's groups or whatever groups in each town requesting Carnegie funding, and replies from Carnegie's secretary in charge of this, often with specific directions about designs. If there is a wealth of info about all Rosenwald schools somewhere, then this list-system could be way bigger yes. And, surely we must acknowledge that historic registry listing and in general coverage about places is biased towards the rich and substantial, e.g. mansions and exclusive club houses, and is biased against lowly ramshackle schools for poor black kids. Which honestly is why User:Pubdog and me and many other NRHP editors really do like to cover the lowly things too. And the National Park Service has made big efforts to try to balance out coverage, though it is an uphill battle.

Per general guidelines for list-articles (wp:SALAT?), criteria for list-item notability, i.e. whether an item can be included in the list, can be lower than requiring a separate article to exist for it. Consensus for list-item notability should be established by discussion among editors at the Talk page of the list-article. What do you want it to be, here? --Doncram (talk) 01:59, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The core problem of having a list of "notable" somethings for me is that notability is subjectice outside of Wikipedia and even here it's fairly subjective. Lots of Rosenwald schools may not meet our school notability criteria especially as they've been firmed up, but seem worth listing. So I would just list all of them. A sublist or section or separate list perhaps on the NRHP ones might be good. Or just notates here. On the other hand I find tables unwieldy because it's no simple task to update with additions but as many have noted I'm quite a simpleton. I noted one of the schools I was working on above that I think should be added. In my opinion all of the high schools should be included at least. These were often the first and only high schools available African Americans in these areas. That seems.historic to me.and is noted in various sources.covering African American history. FloridaArmy (talk) 02:07, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose it could be a list of Rosenwald schools that have Wikipedia articles. FloridaArmy (talk) 02:08, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly at least that. In practice that's probably how the majority of list-articles in Wikipedia operate, I think because it offloads the drawing-the-line decisions to usual other processes of article creators and deleters.

About sources, though? What are your general sources? Browsing at Rosenwald school article, one of the sources i like is this one about Saving Rosenwald Schools]. The Wp article is okay/good, but I'd like to see it go into the various specific Rosenwald plans. I know from some of the NRHP articles that there are specific standard plans which were used, and sometimes modified. I don't see any list of 5,000 school names or 5,000 populated places having an R school, though, so maybe that settles the bigger question anyhow. I think that Saving article is the one ending with mention of one named "Godsend Rosenwald School". Possibly we could have a list for each Southern state, if this list-article grew; it looks to me like there sort of is coverage about many individual states' R schools as a group. Do see List of Carnegie libraries in California or any of the other state ones (see navigation template among them at the bottom of any one). There are/were fewer Carnegie libraries though. --Doncram (talk) 04:09, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

An issue is that these were generally wood frame structures, often in humid climates. I looked for a historic school in a rural area of Georgia or South Carolina once, and could sort of find out where it is/was, but it was completely overgrown by trees, vines, and maybe rotted out. Most of these R schools are gone completely, unlike Carnegie libraries which usually have survived, though many have been repurposed. --Doncram (talk) 04:13, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I know of at least two Rosenwald schools in Virginia that are not on the list. One recently was fully refurbished and dedicated as a community center, with much public acclaim. Please see: [1]https://www.29news.com/2023/11/11/st-john-rosenwald-school-holds-grand-opening-celebration/ . Surely, it deserves to be list of Virginia's Rosenwald schools. JCNSmith (talk) 14:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

JCNSmith it would be great if someone made those WP articles too, this list is stronger with links to articles. PigeonChickenFish (talk) 22:58, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List order?[edit]

Is there an order to this list? I didn’t see any pattern used to create the list but I am not sure. Would it help to have separate lists by state, in order to reduce searching? PigeonChickenFish (talk) 06:38, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I added headers to separate by state, and then placed them in alphabetical order by name. PigeonChickenFish (talk) 08:57, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Florida location[edit]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024/04/26/after-long-road-seminole-agrees-to-community-center-at-old-rosenwald-site/ Richaardvark (talk) 10:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you writing the article? PigeonChickenFish (talk) 22:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]