Talk:List of diss tracks

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More citations would be desirable[edit]

Created this list on November 5, 2019, with 30 songs of high cultural impact. So far, we have sources for only 11 of the songs. It would be great to add 1-3 sources for each song on this list, which would support the details and cultural import of the songs. I've spent 5 hours on this now, so I won't be able to add these sources tonight, but I'm confident they exist because...

The reason why I felt comfortable publishing the article with a number of sources remaining to be added is because more than 80% of the songs on this list are so notable they have pages of their own. --Shrinkydinks (talk) 10:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good start[edit]

@Shrinkydinks: Thanks for starting this list. I've made some tweaks I figured I'd outline here, based on typical Wikipedia list formatting/standards.

  • Added WikiProjects above
  • moved to "list of diss tracks" ("notable" is part of what we'd call the "inclusion criteria")
  • removed the "cultural impact" etc. since determining which are significant is better left to notability, using that clear definition ("cultural impact" is ambiguous, and since we defer to sources for everything, it can't just be what we, as editors, decide has had cultural impact).
  • replaced the above with a basic definition
  • removed non-notable diss tracks - on Wikipedia, notable is defined at WP:N. It means, basically, "has received significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject -- sufficient to have its own Wikipedia article". With a list of examples like this (in the sense that we're not trying to list every diss track that exists in the world), that typically means we include tracks that have their own Wikipedia article.

— Rhododendrites talk \\ 02:36, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Rhododendrites: Thank you for your help and your guidance in the right direction! Really appreciate your help. This list in its original format was nearly entirely constructed from a list previously removed from diss (music) because the editors felt that page should not be a list itself.

  • RE: notability of list items, WP:N#Stand-alone lists says, "the entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been," while also stating that editors may, at their discretion, limit lists to the higher notability standard you described. While I agree we should not allow the list to become an indiscriminate collection of every diss track ever, I believe in this case the standard of each track meeting WP:N might be a bit too restrictive as there are a decent number of diss tracks that had strong cultural impact that do as of yet do not have their own articles. That said, I don't at this time have a good alternative for a consistent measure of notability we can apply across entries in the list. So I suppose I'd just like to hear others' thoughts on the subject!

--Shrinkydinks (talk) 08:27, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm a big believer in the guidance outlined at WP:WTAF for lists like this. Since we would typically expect each to be notable, that would mean they should have their own article or at minimum include sources sufficient to justify an article. We typically just go with the former, though, for simplicity, because if you already have the sources necessary to create an article, why not just create it? Allowing entries without articles also tends to turn articles into spam magnets. Especially with a list of songs, everyone who has a song that's received even a mention in the press will be adding their songs here, quickly becoming indiscriminate.
To me the trickiest thing, when I was starting to go through the article, was the question of what to do with songs that don't have an article, but are mentioned in the article about the album. My initial inclination is to remove them, but I have less strong opinions about that. As per WP:NOPAGE, many topics are notable enough to be included in Wikipedia somewhere, but are best included in a parent article rather than on their own. That may be the case for some songs, and there's an open question of whether they should be included. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 21:21, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dynamic List / Strategies for expanding it with reliably sourced entries.[edit]

I've found a few pages we can consult to see if there are any missing tracks:

 Done. Checked every blue-linked song in MixMag's list is in the article/list here. Most on-the-fence ones were Lauryn Hill's "Lost Ones (Lauren Hill song)|Lost Ones" which is frequently mentioned on its album page, and maybe "Set It Off" from the album Long Live the Kane, also mentioned there a handful of times. DJ Quik's "Dollaz + Sense" gets a good mention in subsection of his article titled "Feud with Compton's Most Wanted". Compton's Most Wanted's "Def Wish" (I-IV) might get a mention here too. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 09:09, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Checked this whole list and made sure every entry in it that has its own article is included in the main list. A couple were on the fence, such as Roxanne Shante's, "Roxanne's Revenge", which played a relevant role in the Roxanne Wars, but I stuck with the WP:N inclusion requirement. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 08:55, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

None of these are complete/exhaustive, but they could serve as a good starting point: Eg. go through the critics' lists, identify songs that satisfy WP:N (having their own articles), and add those to this list. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 11:15, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment 9 January 9:15am GMT: There are a couple songs that keep showing up over and over again on these lists. Perhaps high overlap/many mentions suggests these songs should have articles written about them if they didn't previously have them. I'm going through the third list here and seeing a lot of similar song titles. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 09:16, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tracks once added to list but not yet ready[edit]

Beginning this section to preserve the hard work of contributors with good intentions but who might have not known the inclusion criteria of the list (As of December 2019, songs must be blue-linked for the main list and videos must have 25,000,000+ views for the YouTube list). —Shrinkydinks (talk) 09:22, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mainstream tracks
Date Released Song Title Artist(s) Target(s) Response to
(if applicable) 		Note Citation
November 14, 1989 "Sons of 3rd Bass" 3rd Bass Beastie Boys [1]
April 21,1992 "Professor Booty" Beastie Boys 3rd Bass "Sons of 3rd Bass" by 3rd Bass
December 9, 2019 "The Invitation" Nick Cannon feat. Suge Knight Eminem [2]
YouTube tracks
Date Released Song Title Artist(s) Target(s) Response to
(if applicable) 		Views Note
February 9, 2020 "Going Broke" Logan Paul Antonio Brown 10,000,000[3] Part of the feud "AB Don't want to fight with Logan Paul".

References

  1. ^ "The Cactus Album".
  2. ^ Aniftos, Rania (19 December 2019). "A Timeline of Eminem & Nick Cannon's Decade-Long Feud". Billboard. Retrieved 8 January 2020.
  3. ^ Paul, Logan (9 February 2020). "GOING BROKE (Antonio Brown Diss Track)". YouTube. Retrieved 25 February 2020.

Youtube tracks[edit]

Most of these need third-party references to show that they are notable. Having a lot of views is not a reliable indicator since views can be bought. This should not be a page to advertise things that don't otherwise get significant coverage. ... discospinster talk 02:31, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

New addition[edit]

U guys are missing “Bitch Lasagna” by PewDiePie, targeted at TSeries

Do "Yankee Doodle", "Union Dixie", etc. really count as diss tracks?[edit]

From the page on diss tracks: "A diss track, diss record or diss song (diss – abbr. from disrespect) is a song whose primary purpose is to verbally attack someone else, usually another artist." Not to be a killjoy, but I'm not entirely sure if songs like Yankee Doodle and Union Dixie meet those criteria to be considered a proper diss track. Nicolaskyoung (talk) 00:34, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nicolaskyoung: IMO the key here is that it's a response to someone else/a group that makes music. I'd consider Union Dixie a diss track, since the Confederates engaged in plenty of musical propaganda as well, but I don't know if Yankee Doodle counts - did the American revolutionaries do lots of music? QoopyQoopy (talk) 16:24, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Famous Disstracks out of HipHop[edit]

There are at least two of the most famous disstrack lacking:

Get in The Ring (Guns'n'Roses) - directed at various music magazines EMI (Sex Pistols) - directed at EMI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:14C:6590:858F:3867:B55C:36F6:2D4 (talk) 18:08, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@2804:14C:6590:858F:3867:B55C:36F6:2D4: So add it! That's what Wikipedia is about. QoopyQoopy (talk) 16:25, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pokediger1 and KreekCraft[edit]

The diss tracks by Popular Roblox YouTubers PokeDiger1 and Kreekcraft should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ItzAviqn (talk • contribs) 12:55, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Non-notable cruft[edit]

I have removed the non-notable songs - ie. those that lack articles either about the artist or song itself and also lack independent coverage that would establish notability. I have also again removed Kazachstanski nygus's entry as lyric sites are useless, unreliable, copyright violations and do not provide information to back up any such claims much less establish any encyclopedic value. PRAXIDICAE🌈 16:58, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Big og[edit]

Uh uh big og around here yeah yeah look so this how right im like ya 2600:1702:400:990:4457:8840:B76B:6C60 (talk) 23:07, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in List of diss tracks[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of diss tracks's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Guardian":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 03:19, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in List of diss tracks[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of diss tracks's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Billboard":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 11:50, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Missing tracks[edit]

I'm not a good Wikipedia editor, but I do have a few more very relevant songs that should be on here.

1) Truth, by Gucci Mane. Takes direct shots at Jeezy and Pookie Loc, following the latter's death while attempting to rob Gucci. This track is consistently mentioned as one of the best diss tracks out there, and is about as direct as they come.

2) We Don't Trust You (the song) by Future and Metro Boomin. The second verse is a pretty overt diss towards Drake. Less overt than Like That, but relevant nonetheless.

3) Control, by Big Sean featuring Jay Electronica and Kendrick Lamar. Consistently cited as one of the most important tracks of the decade, Kendrick takes shots at the following artists all by name: J. Cole, Big K.R.I.T., Wale, Pusha T, Meek Mill, A$AP Rocky, Drake, Big Sean, Jay Electronica, Tyler the Creator, and Mac Miller.

4) The Heart Part 4, by Kendrick Lamar. Pretty overt shots at Drake and Big Sean, which was basically confirmed in the leaked version of ELEMENT where he names both of them.


Also, in the youtube section, I think we should include


5) Insecure, by Quadeca. Targeting KSI, this track has a large view count (especially for the creator's size) and provoked reactions from larger creators and a response track from KSI. I think it deserves a mention, if tracks like Dumb King Come (with 500k views) are being included. Tom Nook himself (talk) 02:45, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This week[edit]

This week has been insane, and understandably this page is receiving a lot of activity. Can I get a rundown of what other editors would consider acceptable secondary sources? Thanks in advance. Delukiel (talk) 14:20, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tyler The Creator[edit]

I feel like "Yonkers" by Tyler and a couple of more songs in his early days could be considered diss tracks Sognik (talk) 08:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add Lil B's T-Shirt Buddens[edit]

I'm surprised this isn't listed already. definitely should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TvxRY0yU5Q 2601:280:5C82:ECE0:D826:23AD:9DF8:13B4 (talk) 06:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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