Talk:List of districts of South Sumatra

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Requested move 13 August 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus DrStrauss talk 19:08, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

– Per discussion at Talk:List of subdistricts of Indonesia#Translation of kecamatan. No opposition since the first post on 15 July 2017 despite having pinged twice the two editors who kept moving kecamatan pages from subdistrict to district. All listed provinces use the term kecamatan for the third-level adminstrative subdivision, which most sources (e.g. [1] translate as subdistrict. The two provinces that use the term distrik (=district) can stay as they are, i.e. Districts of Papua and Districts of West Papua. HyperGaruda (talk) 09:55, 13 August 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 04:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. DrStrauss talk 17:51, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting note: please add alternative proposals in the new sub-section. DrStrauss talk 17:51, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support per explanation there. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:04, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree I cannot agree with the explanation. Kecamatan cannot be directly translated to district, because district already has another definition: an area of a town or country which has been given official boundaries for the purpose of administration. So a kecamatan is a district, but a province and a kabupaten are districts too:

Until 1999 provinces used to be known as ‘Daerah tingkat I’ (translates as District level I)
Kabupaten used to be known as ‘Daerah tingkat II’ (District level II, a subdistrict of a district level I)
On Indonesian language Wikipedia, kecamatan are categorised as ‘Daerah tingkat III’ (District level III) (See id:Kategori:Semua daerah tingkat III di Indonesia

I propose to do not translate words like 'kecamatan' and 'kabupaten'. We should just use the official Indonesian term and give a short description. Tjibbe I (talk) 12:03, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tjibbe I, you do hopefully realise that I'm proposing to translate kecamatan as "subdistrict", not just "district" (which is for the Papuan distrik). By the way, how can daerah be a district if distrik is already obviously a district? Isn't daerah just a general term like "region"? --HyperGaruda (talk) 18:24, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I do realise that. But a subdistrict of a province is a kabupaten or kota. Not a kecamatan. So in an article named Subdistricts of South Sumatra kecamatan should only be listed if placed under the kabupaten/kota they belong to.

When it comes to the meaning of the term ‘daerah’: according to Collins COBUILD Compact English Learner's Dictionary there are two definitions for the term district:

an area of a town or country
an area of a town or country which has been given official boundaries for the purpose of administration

Both definitions can be applied to the word daerah.

I really do not see how a term like kecamatan can be translated to English by first translating it back to the term used in the colonial era until about fifty years ago. Since a direct translation is not possible, it should not be translated. --Tjibbe I (talk) 12:07, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The proposed renames add nothing for the general English-speaking reader. At best a waste of three bytes, arguably confusing and less recognisable, definitely less concise and no more precise. Andrewa (talk) 11:28, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So what about consistency? We really have got to normalize the chaotic naming now present in Category:Lists of districts of Indonesia. --HyperGaruda (talk) 12:24, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support move somewhere for the start. I've read the linked discussion and the move makes sense, if only to properly distinguish distriks and kecamatan. It could be argued that Kecamatans of South Sumatra etc. could be a better and unambiguous solution (as I understand that Tjibbe I advocates), as we do not always translate foreign-language administrative units (Oblasts of Ukraine, Mukims of Brunei, Gewogs of Bhutan), but I don't find this a reason to oppose this proposal that would resolve the issue of misnaming. Frankly, I don't understand Andrewa's opposition – the substance of the proposal is to distinguish Subdistricts of Indonesia from Districts of Indonesia and impose consistency in naming. No such user (talk) 12:48, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.