Talk:List of fraudsters

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Ferdinand Ward?[edit]

Is there a reason that this individual has been lift off the list?

I just finished the Ron Chernow bio on US Grant, and this guy was a first class fraud man. Spent less than 10 years in Sing Sing; (he was a preview Bernie Madoff before there was the BM himself.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Ward "Ferdinand De Wilton Ward, Jr. (1851–1925), known first as the "Young Napoleon of Finance,"[1] and subsequently as "the Best-Hated Man in the United States," was an American swindler. Ward caused the financial ruin of many people, including famous persons such as Thomas Nast and the former U.S. President Ulysses S. Grant, who had helped him start his banking business." 68.111.65.18 (talk) 15:36, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't say there is any reason he was deliberately left off the list. I went ahead and added him. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:49, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Format[edit]

Now that this has been split I figured it needed some kind of sectioning to break it up a bit, so as you can see I just went with alphabetical since it was already arranged that way. Now that this is a stand-alone list I imagine it could be greatly expanded. If anyone wanted to get really fancy and make it into some kind of sortable table, I would say go for it. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:44, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

accused-vs-convicted[edit]

I've just removed two entries on notable persons caught up in the 2019 college admissions bribery scandal. The reason I have done so is that while both of the persons named were arrested and charged, they have not been convicted, so including them on this list seems like a pretty big WP:BLP violation. An accusation, even one that leads to an arrest, is not proof. It's fine to cover this in the articles on these persons, sticking just to what's already been reported, but I do not believe they should be listed here. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:53, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BLP in general[edit]

This page was brought to my attention by ongoing the MfD for Portal:Fraud, but it seems my concerns expressed there about sourcing are replicated here. It is my understanding of the BLP policy that all items on this list that relate to living people absolutely require a reliable source to be presented in this article, and not just the linked article. I will therefore go through and, for now, just hide all the unsourced entries that refer to BLPs, but if they are not sourced immediately they should be removed altogether. Do not restore them without providing a reliable source. Espresso Addict (talk) 11:24, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ETA If I forget to return and remove those hidden items uncited within a few days, someone should remove the hidden entries entirely. Espresso Addict (talk) 11:50, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References added, nothing left hidden. Jmg38 (talk) 04:12, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

George Santos[edit]

I saw that this page discerns between accused and convicted. He was convicted and admitted his guilt in forging checks in Brazil. In addition - he's on video using an alias in multiple places. Anthony Scaramucci has no record of GS attending a conference he claimed to have been a guest speaker at. I believe we have proof his late mother was in Brazil and not in NY on 9/11. He went from Jewish to Jew-ish. Genealogists have proven he is not the grandchild of Holocaust survivors. High School. Goldman Sachs. Is that enough? Philr777 (talk) 00:32, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This seems more or less an inevitable discussion[edit]

Donald Trump and his two sons have just been found guilty of fraud. To me this seems like more than enough for their inclusion on the list, but as Trump is soch a polarizing figure I did not go ahead and add them, figuring we may as well have a discussion first. Thoughts? Beeblebrox (talk) 22:05, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am inclined to agree. On the one hand, mere conviction of fraud probably isn't enough for inclusion on this list. On the other hand, he's an inherently extremely notable person, and the fraud was pretty big, so it probably merits it.

There is a potential argument that the list is intended for people who are notable because of their fraud ("fraudsters" vs "people who committed fraud"). But I'd say a generally very notable public figure committing significant fraud is also fair game. And we have an entire article dedicated to him lying about stuff, and there's an argument lying is a not-insignificant portion of why he is notable (from the Central Park Five to the upcoming Presidential election, it's always been integral to his persona). So yeah. AntiDionysius (talk) 22:19, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's been nine days with no objections, so I suppose I should go find some references and add him to the list. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:04, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good edit. Andre🚐 04:12, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Donald J. Trump conned his way into the highest executive office of the most powerful country in the history of the world. Not even Hitler or Stalin could say that. 174.195.195.146 (talk) 16:47, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe move?[edit]

I'm kind of uncomfortable when it comes to BLPs who are primarily notable for other things and the highest-quality RS are not using the term "fraudster". Maybe move to List of people convicted of fraud? Valereee (talk) 17:31, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]